Ford FE timing chain questions

[NoahVail]

I have a 1969 ford FE that has been bored over sometime in it's life and now the timing chain needs to be replaced. I bought a brand new stock cloyes chain and stuck it in. It had miles of slop. Slightly worse than the one i took out.

I contacted their customer support and the service manager said that maybe it had been lined bored. and that I would need an undersized chain either .010 or .005, and a measuring procedure. I followed it with a set of good quality calipers and I can't seem to get any good results.

The cam nub (for lack of the proper term) and the crank seem to be on different planes. Where the nub is proud of the block is right where the tapper is on the crank. The measurement i got doing it anyway says that i need a .010 under chain.

I thought i'd be extra clever and stick a bolt in the camshaft and use that for my measurements. The only problem is that it says that I should be able to use a standard timing chain. It occurred to me that the bolt hole may not precisely centered on the cam. The gear locates on the nub, and not the bolt.



Do you guy's know how i could shop for undersized sets locally? The only things i can find are fancy racecar billet chains that i really don't need (150-200$). I just drive this car to work, and i'd like it to not run like absolute trash.

The size of chains i need are. 5.034" and 5.039" for the undersized ones. Or should i just buy another stock chain? The timing gear sizes match exactly with the ones i pulled out of the engine. The original one i pulled out was a factory nylon gear as well.

[KULTULZ]

Usually, when a crank saddle is line bored it is for performance hence the roller timing kit.

I would call back CLOYES TECH and ask if an .010 U/S non-roller OEM style is available or can be made.

BTW - Ditch the nylon cam gear and go for steel.

[KULTULZ]

!!! OH, I FORGOT (CRS) !!!

If you do speak with TECH (or a competent machine shop) please post what you find as I would like to know the correct answer also.

It seems to me when a block was saved with this method in a GALAXIE FAR FAR AWAY that U/S TIMING SETS were available (not only roller).

I would appreciate it greatly ...

[KULTULZ]

I bought a brand new stock cloyes chain and stuck it in. It had miles of slop. Slightly worse than the one i took out.

Did you just replace the chain or the complete set? If the cam gear was nylon teeth, it may be part of the problem there. Find a set that has a steel cam gear (IMO)

[NoahVail]

When i installed the new stock timing set, i did put it in as a complete set. I was remarking that the set i pulled off this engine that may need an undersized timing set still had the factory nylon gear installed. When you undersize a timing set do they enlarge the gears, or somehow make the links smaller on the chain?

My guess was that they used slightly larger gears to make up for the slack.

[KULTULZ]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

make the links smaller on the chain

There 'ya go. Much cheaper than to make available O/S gears.

Did your replacement set have a nylon cam gear? They can cause a lot of trouble so it is better to ditch them. FORD was going for engine quietness on that one.

[NoahVail]

My replacement set i put in was a full steel set.

When you buy an undersized timing set, do they oversize the gears or the chain? I still have the original set i pulled off this engine and the gears perfectly match the set i pulled off.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by NoahVail

My replacement set i put in was a full steel set.

When you buy an undersized timing set, do they oversize the gears or the chain? I still have the original set i pulled off this engine and the gears perfectly match the set i pulled off.

The gears are STD and the chain itself is undersized (U/S).

[miker98038]

This is from memory, and we know how dangerous that is. Back in 2006 I was building a 340 cid F code clone for my roadster. The 56 312 Merc block had been line bored before, and needed it again. The timing chain was loose and needed to be addressed.

Rollmaster in AU did custom chains for y blocks in those days. They sent me directions to measure the stock (new) chain and made a new set. It installed fine and degreed in fine. I believe they no longer make these for y blocks. I also seem to recall it was in the cam gear size to take up the slack. It was not a huge cost adder, but it was $ for shipping and time.

But it might be worth an email to them to ask about the FE. The AU contact (as opposed to the US distributor) is

https://www.norndaautomotive.com.au/rollmaster.html

Your other alternative is to degree the cam in with the slack out, and live with the shift in timing, or compensate for it. I don’t know that that matters. If it’s degreed in right for a daily driver it should still give many miles of good service. Normal usage and rpm’s won’t jump a gear. Race engines, get your wallet out.

[fordor41]

Originally Posted by NoahVail

When i installed the new stock timing set, i did put it in as a complete set. I was remarking that the set i pulled off this engine that may need an undersized timing set still had the factory nylon gear installed. When you undersize a timing set do they enlarge the gears, or somehow make the links smaller on the chain?

My guess was that they used slightly larger gears to make up for the slack.

If they made the sprocket larger, the cam would go out of time fairly fast

[rotorwrench]

Cloyes used to be good stuff. I'd take a sloppy set back and either try another set or another brand. Things that could affect centers would be reboring a cam tunnel for some reason or align boring the mains and getting it off center somewhere. Most FE engine should use the same set but the design lasted from late 1957 though the mid 70s so there may be variations.

What FE are we referring to and what application.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by miker98038

Your other alternative is to degree the cam in with the slack out, and live with the shift in timing, or compensate for it. I don’t know that that matters. If it’s degreed in right for a daily driver it should still give many miles of good service. Normal usage and rpm’s won’t jump a gear. Race engines, get your wallet out.

... uh ...

Isn't a loose timing set the reason you replace them?

30W hasn't kicked in yet ...?

[Ford blue blood]

Timing chains should be soaked in oil over night to ensure all surfaces are covered.

[KULTULZ]

You know, this needs to be addressed over at y-blocksforever as TED EATON has the answer.

TECH has advanced so much and I am years behind. I would like to know the current correct answer myself.

[rotorwrench]

Nothing back from OP yet on application but I also wonder whether this is a geared link type chain set or a double roller set? The geared link usually last longer but not by enough to worry about it. Double roller chains run smoother and with less noise.

Having been around chains a good bit for all sorts of drives, it's not uncommon to have some slack in a chain drive. If it has less than 1/4 inch of slack in a mid point check then it should have no trouble doing it's job without timing wander. If timing wanders at idle speed while watching with a timing light then it has too much slack.

If some shop did a bad align bore job, it could be a cause but most machine shops set there tooling up correctly to make it straighter and better and not worse. They generally shorten the caps on the mains so that they can stay on center and not affect the diameter by much but oversize main outer shells are available if it has to go oversize. It still should be on center. That's the whole point of align boring.

This is a very good link.
https://www.diyford.com/ford-fe-engi...ltimate-guide/

[NoahVail]

Sorry for the late reply. It's just a bog standard stock chain out of a low pro 390 in a 1969 ford XL. The chain i know is not a double roller.

The chain i took out had a pretty aggressive amount of slop, and so did the one i put in. When putting a timing light on it, the indicator jumps all over the place. And with a wrench on the crank and the cap off the rotor takes 15-17 degrees of movement on the crank before it moves.

[KULTULZ]

When putting a timing light on it, the indicator jumps all over the place. And with a wrench on the crank and the cap off the rotor takes 15-17 degrees of movement on the crank before it moves.

You have a big problem. Call TECH in the morning and get back.

[NoahVail]

It's either i got a bum chain out of the box, or that this engine was line bored.

[miker98038]

Well with that much jump in timing, it’s pretty clear it matters. I’ve replaced timing chains, but never seen that much let alone with a new chain.

[KULTULZ]

When You Really Really Need To Know -

http://www.bhjproducts.com/bhj_conte...ooling/ccg.php