Seat Belts in a Coupe

[Bruce of MN]

I started off with this http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/seatbelts.htm as inspiration, but the sliding wood seat frame/base in my Coupe blocks access to the logical anchor points.

Any suggestions?

[Bruce Adams]

Volume 6 of "How to Restore your Model A Ford" has a six page article on installing seat belts in a coupe.
I used perforated angle iron under my floor boards, then I ran braces to the frame for additional support.

[Bruce of MN]

Thanks, I'll take a look at that.

[Kevin - Illinois]

Originally Posted by Bruce Adams

Volume 6 of "How to Restore your Model A Ford" has a six page article on installing seat belts in a coupe.

Originally Posted by Bruce Adams

I used perforated angle iron under my floor boards, then I ran braces to the frame for additional support.

I did the same as Bruce, and I'm very confident in the strength.

[SteveM]

I think that MAFCA or MARC had a link to an article on how to install belts. I can't find it right now. It might be the same article as in the "How To Restore.." book. If it is written from the viewpoint of a stuffed bear, then that's the article.

Can you post pictures? I'd like to see how you ran the braces to the frame.

I'm looking at running a couple of pieces of perforated angle across the rear panel that separates the passenger compartment from the trunk (same as in the MAFCA/MARC article). A local club member showed me how his coupe was done, and it used the angle iron method, but there were wood spacer blocks. I'm not sure why they are there, but I suspect that was done because the metal panel to which the angle attaches is not perfectly straight.

I like Vince's work in the referenced link, but I'm not sure I like the flattened tube - looks like a weak link.

Steve

[SteveM]

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Found the article I was looking for (and a couple of others):

http://www.mafca.com/seat_belts.html

Steve

[broncojohn]

Thank You a must do in my car! Is there a company that makes a older looking set of belts?

[Jason in TX]

I keep contemplating how to do this in a 1930 Cabriolet with wooden subrails. Will the angle iron work connected to the frame of the car?

[SteveM]

The club member that had the coupe also had a convertible.

I think that the outer belts mounted to something metal, but the inner mounting points were in the wood cross-member.

The bolts were backed up by a steel plate, but I would feel more comfortable with angle iron around the wood going from one side to the other and mounted to the body at the ends.

The force on belts in a crash is not trivial. I saw one calculation that said that stopping from 30 mph in 1 ft is 30 g's. Multiply that by a 200 pound passenger and you get 6,000 pounds (the seat belts will stretch and the actual load will be less, but you get the idea that the belt mounting points have to hold a LOT more than your weight!).

Steve

[Jason in TX]

Originally Posted by broncojohn

Thank You a must do in my car! Is there a company that makes a older looking set of belts?

Here is a site that makes older style belts in various colors. Good prices, too.
Non Retractable Old Style Belts:
http://www.gotbelts.com/beclchlilapb.html

Retractable Old style Belts in two sizes
http://www.gotbelts.com/relapbe.html

Also on the same site, they show pictures of someone who has installed their product in a Model A coupe.
http://www.gotbelts.com/1931model.html

Picture in the Rumble seat


Retractable in the cabin


Pictures of how they are installed


Under the Car view

[45B]

Perfect, just what I have been looking for. For my 31 Std Coupe.
Frank

[SteveM]

OK, so I've got the car on jackstands and the interior and rumble seat bottom cushions are out.

I'm trying to figure out locations for seat belt mounting points, but I really need to see under the seat frame.

How do I remove the frame and the seat back?

How is the seat back attached to the frame and how is the strip of cloth attached that covers the gap when you move the seat forward?

I've looked in Les Andrews, the Coupe Book, and vol 1-4 of the restore books and I can't find anything.

Steve

[Bruce Adams]

I did mine in my 68C Cabriolet as described earlier in this thread.

[dmaxweb]

Originally Posted by Bruce of MN

I started off with this http://idisk.mac.com/forever4/Public/pages/seatbelts.htm as inspiration, but the sliding wood seat frame/base in my Coupe blocks access to the logical anchor points.

Any suggestions?

I also have a coupe with the adjustable seat. I have the same issue with wood seat support frame (not the sliding seat frame itself) blocking the inboard anchor points. Anybody have a solution to this?

[Bruce of MN]

Originally Posted by dmaxweb

I also have a coupe with the adjustable seat. I have the same issue with wood seat support frame (not the sliding seat frame itself) blocking the inboard anchor points. Anybody have a solution to this?

I'm going to follow up on the recommendations above and see if it gives me the "True Path".

[dmaxweb]

Originally Posted by Bruce of MN

I'm going to follow up on the recommendations above and see if it gives me the "True Path".

I'm going to take out the bench seat this weekend and look again. I don't remember exactly what is looks like but I'm thinking maybe the back of the base board could be notched just wide and deep enough to get the belt through and then add a reinforcing steel plate under the remaining board if needed.

[SteveM]

The pictures at http://www.gotbelts.com/1931model.html show how the outside units with the retractors installed are mounted (see pic above) but don't show how the center belts are mounted.

The MAFCA article http://www.mafca.com/downloads/Techn...at_belts_2.pdf appears to show the metal angle attached to the back of the seat unit. This is wood and I'm not sure that is a secure enough mounting point. Also, with two 175 pound occupants, that's 350 pounds times how many G's - can the seat be pulled completely out of the track in an accident?

Maybe bolting them to the floor in the trunk and tying that into a body rail somehow, then cutting a slot in the sheet metal for the belts to slide through?

Not sure yet.

Steve

[dmaxweb]

Originally Posted by SteveM

The pictures at http://www.gotbelts.com/1931model.html show how the outside units with the retractors installed are mounted (see pic above) but don't show how the center belts are mounted.

The MAFCA article http://www.mafca.com/downloads/Techn...at_belts_2.pdf appears to show the metal angle attached to the back of the seat unit. This is wood and I'm not sure that is a secure enough mounting point. Also, with two 175 pound occupants, that's 350 pounds times how many G's - can the seat be pulled completely out of the track in an accident?

Maybe bolting them to the floor in the trunk and tying that into a body rail somehow, then cutting a slot in the sheet metal for the belts to slide through?

Not sure yet.

Steve

I'm not referring to the wood frame that is attached to the seat frame and therfore slides with the seat.

There is a board underneath that to support the back of the seat frame. It is attached to the body and does not move. What I am talking about is cutting a slot in that board and anchoring the belts with grade 8 bolts through the floor and a flat steel bar underneath with fender washers/nuts. The anchor point is the floor, and the slot only provides a means of getting the belt through to the seat.

[SteveM]

Originally Posted by dmaxweb

I'm not referring to the wood frame that is attached to the seat frame and therfore slides with the seat.

Yes, I understand. I haven't gotten the seat out yet (any tips n getting it out appreciated - see my earlier post). I was just commenting on the attachment points I've seen.

I noticed in Vince Falter's installation, he has a later car with the metal frame seat, so that may have made it easier for his installation.

I'd like to go to the floor too. When routing the belts, you need to be sure that it's a pretty straight shot. If the belt is routed around a piece of wood, and that piece of wood moves in a crash, it will loosen the belt.

Another source for belts is Julianos:
http://julianos.com/seat_belts.html

They have anchor plates that I think have a better design than a washer. The edges are rounded to avoid tearing through the sheet metal:
http://julianos.com/anchor_plate.html



Steve

[Jason in TX]

I agree on those anchor plates. A washer is going to be no good in a crash. Great find Steve!!