gear shift issue of 2nd speed

[olut]

Hi guys,
After a General overhaul of the gearbox, inserting all new bearings and wheels, all done by an experienced and well trained mechanic, the gearbox runs perfect, third Speed silent, 2nd noisý as usual, first typical...
...BUT
in 2nd Speed at higher revs the gear shift moves out of its Position towards neutral until gears is no longer engaged.

When I shift all positions, I do get the "click". Is there something to adjust so that the stick remains in its Position ??

Thanks in advance for any hints,
Best Greetings
Albert from Austria

[Joe K]

Sadly, this sounding like a worn gear. Might be either the "2nd & High gear" or on the cluster gear, second from the big end.

There might be an issue going on with your output drive shaft causing it to "wobble" relative to the input shaft. Think caged needle bearing between the input and output shaft. But this one you might "feel" as you have your hand on the shift lever and pushing on the 2nd & High gear to keep it in place. And besides, your mechanic DID replace the bearings?

It MIGHT be a flywheel pilot bearing - but now you're once removed from the symptom - you should be seeing issues with 3rd "walking" from this first.

Kinda hard to service any of these with the tranny in place. I would pull it (and the engine) and do a tear-down.

Maybe talk to your mechanic?

Joe K

[Tom Endy]

Check to see if the two .010 shims were installed in the two ears of the clutch housing. Their purpose is to align the housing with the gasket used in the lower portion of the housing. If missing it can cause jumping out of gear.

Tom Endy

[larrys40]

I concur with Tom on checking for the shims. A worn pilot on the front end of the main shaft to main drive gear shaft along with the bearing can also cause issues. Of course good bearings and ensuring no excessive end thrust on the cluster gear and the gears in good shape are paramount as well.

In my opinion I would not pull an engine to do a transmission. Much more time and hastle as the rear can come out quickly without redundancy of unnecessary work.
If you have a 2nd and high gear or main drive shaft issue along with pilot bearing you can even pull those with the transmission still in the car. Just remove the u-joint and rear bearing retainer and they will all come out for service and inspection. Trans can of course be easily removed if necessary.

Larry Shepard

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by olut

Hi guys,
After a General overhaul of the gearbox, inserting all new bearings and wheels, all done by an experienced and well trained mechanic, the gearbox runs perfect, third Speed silent, 2nd noisý as usual, first typical...
...BUT in 2nd Speed at higher revs the gear shift moves out of its Position towards neutral until gears is no longer engaged.

When I shift all positions, I do get the "click". Is there something to adjust so that the stick remains in its Position ??

Thanks in advance for any hints,
Best Greetings
Albert from Austria

Are we gonna start this myth again??

After checking for alignment (shims), I would go drive the vehicle again with someone placing light finger (one!!) pressure against the shift lever to hold it in 2nd gear. If that is all the pressure it takes to hold it engaged, the issue is likely in the shift housing (i.e.: shift rod detents worn, spring pressure, bent shift fork, etc.). If when engine power/acceleration is given and it pushes your finger back and the 2nd gear becomes disengaged, then the issue is in worn/mismatched transmission components.

[Tom Wesenberg]

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Originally Posted by Tom Endy

Check to see if the two .010 shims were installed in the two ears of the clutch housing. Their purpose is to align the housing with the gasket used in the lower portion of the housing. If missing it can cause jumping out of gear.

Tom Endy

X 2

This is the first thing I'd check. If it checks out OK, then I'd pull the tranny top and look at the gear teeth and feel how the 2nd gear fits the shaft.

[olut]

Thank you guys, everything inside the gear box is new, the situation improves by collecting more miles, the "click" when shifting into gears at stopped engine improves a bit, see how it does tomorrow on a longer trip...

[olut]

Finger tip test positive, no pressure needed to keep it in 2nd, tendency to slip out of 2 only on bad roads combined with high revs and high torque...but improving....slowly....

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by olut

Finger tip test positive, no pressure needed to keep it in 2nd, tendency to slip out of 2 only on bad roads combined with high revs and high torque...but improving....slowly....

I am not sure I am following you. Bad roads should have nothing to do with it coming out of 2nd gear. High RPMs should not matter either. High torque load would if the bearings or gears are worn.

So that I am clear with my test, start the vehicle rolling in 1st gear, and then shift to 2nd gear at 5 MPH. With light finger pressure holding the shift lever into 2nd gear, accelerate at ½ throttle to 45 MPH. Repeat this process at wide-open-throttle. If your light finger pressure will hold the gear engaged, then the problem is likely in the shifter housing. If not, then the issue is in the transmission.

Remember that when straight-cut gears are running truly parallel with the mating gear, there should be very little, --if any pressure to cause them to disengage with each other. If the gears are worn in a taper, ...or if the two gears are not running parallel, then loaded pressure will cause them to separate (disengage).

[Tom Wesenberg]

"With light finger pressure holding the shift lever into 2nd gear, accelerate at ½ throttle to 45 MPH. Repeat this process at wide-open-throttle. If your light finger pressure will hold the gear engaged, then the problem is likely in the shifter housing."

45 in second gear at half throttle?
Is that even possible at full throttle without putting a rod through the side of the engine?

[goodoldvic]

KAPOW Tom

[larrys40]

I concur with Brent that no matter what the roads it should not come out. Brent has good advice ( except in 2nd to 45 - he probably meant20-25) I do agree that the shift tower could possible have a weak spring or bad plungershaft issue.. along with the shift ball on the end of the gearshift worn. Many times when folks think they "rebuild" the transmission the shift tower is totally forgotten.

Larry Shepard

[olut]

Larry, you might be right...

[olut]

Hi guys,

The mystery has been lifted: We ordered a new set of transmission wheels, spacers and other items, which move inside a gear box. We changed all bearings and only the primary runner wheels as all other looked like new. THAT WAS THE MISTAKE. The new wheels don't fit to the original ones at 100%, whenever there is a need to change wheels, change all of them as a set from the same manufacturer.

Best Greetings
Albert

[Big hammer]

Please educate me/us wheels in trans? My guess gears? In England they call fenders wings :-). It is interesting to learn

[olut]

Gears , cogs, cog wheels, Zahnräder or in Austrian way of German language "die Radl"n"

:-)

[olut]

Returning problem: during my recent Classic Car Rallye we had to climb several hills in second gear at about 2000Rpm, when the gear leaver slowly shifts into Neutral, the more torque the sooner (0,2mi), the more revs, the sooner too.

Any ideas?

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by olut

Returning problem: during my recent Classic Car Rallye we had to climb several hills in second gear at about 2000Rpm, when the gear leaver slowly shifts into Neutral, the more torque the sooner (0,2mi), the more revs, the sooner too.

Any ideas?

Worn gear teeth, bearings, input shaft, or flywheel cover needs to be dialed in.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Olut,
Have you put NEW shift rails, plungers & spring, in the shift tower? That's what I would do, if I had the same problem.
Remember, they're about ALL that holds it in gear. The detents get worn & the crisp edges get rounded over & the plungers get worn & the spring weakens. You'll find when you put NEW parts, you can't just push & pull it into/out of gear easily, just "slap" it into/out of gear, with your OPEN hand. Be SURE to install the rails correctly, there's a different spacing of the detents, from NEUTRAL to HIGH gear!!!
Bill W.

[Brentwood Bob]

#12 mentioned a worn shifter ball.
Bob