The Ford Barn

Skeezixx · 08-31-2010, 11:23 AM

Does anyone make a reproduction Model A gas tank?
Considering all the headaches we have trying to convince the old originals to deliver clean fuel you'd think there would be a market for a nice original design stainless tank.

Tom from Drippin' · 08-31-2010, 11:31 AM

Nope. To many product liability lawyers standing in the wings!

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 08-31-2010, 12:03 PM

Actually, I am not sure that is the true reason Tom. There are several reproduction tanks currently made for the Model T, ...and TANKS Inc. makes many tanks for "newer" cars (1930s and up). RoadsterUte is now offering a 28-29 tank but I have not seen it in person. I feel like within the next 3-5 years you will see a generic reproduction tank offered for the M28-29 and M30-E31 Model A's. With tooling likely in the $250k+ range for each type tank, it would probably require over 1600 tanks to be sold in the retail level of $600.00 each to justify doing the project. Is there truly that kind of demand?

.

1931 flamingo · 08-31-2010, 12:12 PM

I think it's like radiators. It's a lot of money BUT, look at the posts, so many for over heating and fuel problems that I think many would pay that kind of money just for the piece of mind. I believe it ws you whose posted pictures of a tank that was opened up to show the baffles, etc. How much would you charge for that kind of a "restoration" of the tank? A rough figure would suffice if so inclined to post. Thank you
Paul in CT Fortunately my late 80's resto has had NO fuel problems.

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 08-31-2010, 12:20 PM

Generally speaking, it costs about $500.00 to restore a tank.

Do you feel strongly enough about being able to sell them at $600 that you would sell your car/assets/etc. and go in with 24 other people and put up $10k to do the deal? In all liklihood, you are in the same boat as I in that the R.o.I. is not enough to take a gamble.

.

Wick · 08-31-2010, 12:27 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Tanks are comming soon from DownUnder. This month issue of Street rodder ?theres a artical of a company building Model A truck cabs in Austraila,the artical says there going to be making gas tanks for the Model A. It could have been last months copy?
Wick

Frank Miller · 08-31-2010, 01:08 PM

I actually thought this was a liability issue because of the location in the occupants' lap.

5window · 08-31-2010, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Miller

I actually thought this was a liability issue because of the location in the occupants' lap.

True, but pretty much anywhere you would put a gas tank in a Model A is a liability.

rotorwrench · 08-31-2010, 01:29 PM

I always figure it was due to the outright complexity. Comparing the A-bone tanks to just about any other type and it's one complicated sombeech. The welding process alone took a fair amount of time to develop in 1927.

RonC · 08-31-2010, 02:18 PM

A reproduction tank will most likely stick out like a sore thumb. I would prefer an insert plastic bladder that you install inside your original tank.

Skeezixx · 08-31-2010, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Actually, I am not sure that is the true reason Tom. There are several reproduction tanks currently made for the Model T, ...and TANKS Inc. makes many tanks for "newer" cars (1930s and up). RoadsterUte is now offering a 28-29 tank but I have not seen it in person. I feel like within the next 3-5 years you will see a generic reproduction tank offered for the M28-29 and M30-E31 Model A's. With tooling likely in the $250k+ range for each type tank, it would probably require over 1600 tanks to be sold in the retail level of $600.00 each to justify doing the project. Is there truly that kind of demand?

.

When I went into production on an optical design I patented I couldn't produce them in any American lab for less than $125.00 per unit.
I went to China where I ultimately got them for $1.91 each packaged! for a minimum order of 100.

Optical elements, with multiple coatings, requires a great deal more precision than sheet metal parts. I found the Chinese capable of offering closer tolerances than any American lab I have dealt with.

For $600 these guys would build me a tank out of case hardened quartz, backlighted, with threaded holes, and a facsimile of Henry Ford's fingerprints laser etched on the front.

Then I wouldn't need a gas gauge anymore.

The point is I suspect there are dozens of sheet metal shops offshore which would love to reproduce tanks (or anything) at a reasonable cost if there is a demand.

After all, I can't be the only guy removing "made in Taiwan" stickers from new Model A parts I ordered from the major American suppliers.

Chris in CT · 08-31-2010, 04:48 PM

Skeezixx, The more I think about this, the more I think a conventional, burst-proof tank designed to fit under the frame, just in front of the rear spring might work. For the driver, the added safety factor would be significant, and the old empty and cleaned tank would present a traditional cowl with the possibility of electronic and storage space inside if so desired. All you would need to do is hang the tank, and hook up an electric fuel pump with impact shutoff, and you'd be all set and much safer for passengers. Just a fantasy...

peters180a/170b · 08-31-2010, 05:23 PM

Well if this is true its very good for the hobby. Brookville roadster company will be happy ... More sales for them .

hardtimes · 08-31-2010, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris in CT

Skeezixx, The more I think about this, the more I think a conventional, burst-proof tank designed to fit under the frame, just in front of the rear spring might work. For the driver, the added safety factor would be significant, and the old empty and cleaned tank would present a traditional cowl with the possibility of electronic and storage space inside if so desired. All you would need to do is hang the tank, and hook up an electric fuel pump with impact shutoff, and you'd be all set and much safer for passengers. Just a fantasy...

Chris,
''Just a fantasy''! Well, your fantasy just came true..well not just now..as these '32 style tanks have been and/are made for some time now! They look pretty good on an A.

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 08-31-2010, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonC

A reproduction tank will most likely stick out like a sore thumb. I would prefer an insert plastic bladder that you install inside your original tank.

Now THAT one doesn't make sense to me at all! Does a reproduction fender stick out like a sore thumb? What about reproduction running board, ...or a reproduction headlight or wiring harness? Like Marco says, most people do not know what many original items look like however while these repro parts may be slightly different, they do not stick out like a sore thumb IMO.

Frank, how is a Model A gas tank in your lap any different than sitting on a Model T tank??

Skeez, while I do not have any first-hand experience dealing with off-shore manufacturing however I have/had several customers who do business over there regularly and the common thread I hear out of all of them is staying on Q/C. We cut original tanks open and weld them up in my shop and I can tell you that if you are not fixtured up to hold the tank, it will not fit the cowl when you get ready to bolt it back in. Have about 100 tanks made that do not fit, ...and factor in the lead time of the shipping plus the fact that most of these shops require payment up front and imagine the frustration when those 100 arrive and 90% of them do not fit. I also hear these cheaper shops will also let you pay for tool steel dies but instead make dies from Kirksite will last for maybe the first 100-150 tanks. Sure you can make multiple trips back & forth checking on the progress but you in all likelihood, your costs will be the same as having them made in the states by the times the extra Q/C are ammortized over the tanks. In that case, just go ahead and have them built here.

.

Barry B./ Ma. · 08-31-2010, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris in CT

Skeezixx, The more I think about this, the more I think a conventional, burst-proof tank designed to fit under the frame, just in front of the rear spring might work. For the driver, the added safety factor would be significant, and the old empty and cleaned tank would present a traditional cowl with the possibility of electronic and storage space inside if so desired. All you would need to do is hang the tank, and hook up an electric fuel pump with impact shutoff, and you'd be all set and much safer for passengers. Just a fantasy...

Chris if I remember right the Shay roadster in 1980 had the gas filler neck behind the drivers door on the rear quarter so I would assume from that the tank was mounted in the frame with most likely an electric pump. Worked well as far as I can remember.

rotorwrench · 08-31-2010, 07:09 PM

Bladders were mentioned as possibility. Bladders are used in aviation quite a bit but they require overhauls as they age. They are made by companies like Goodyear and they are expensive. You would have to cut a fairly large access port in there just to get it in then it would have to be fastened up in some way to make it keep its shape.

I think I'd leave the bladders to the aircraft folks. I hate working on them that's for sure. It would be easier to cut the bottom out and install a plastic tank and that doesn't sound like much fun either.

Kerby

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 08-31-2010, 07:35 PM

Explain to me how these "bladders" would/could work when a Model A tank if filled with baffles spot welded in the locations they are.

MCHinson · 08-31-2010, 07:38 PM

That is easy.... they won't! I was wondering how long it was going to take someone to point that out. I would have said it but I don't have the photos to show it like you did! Thanks.

Skeezixx · 08-31-2010, 08:02 PM

Brent You bring up a good point about quality control. Offshore they don't have the safety concerns we do here in the states. Someone could take shortcuts and the results may be a nightmare.

I for one wouldn't like to have my wingtips and argyle socks suddenly inundated with 11 gallons of hi test ethyl.

The concept of a 32 rear mounted tank is interesting. That would give us the option of having two glove boxes and one could mount a bowling trophy or a bobblehead in the old gas cap.

08-31-2010, 11:23 AM	#1
Skeezixx Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 426	Reproduction gas tank? Does anyone make a reproduction Model A gas tank? Considering all the headaches we have trying to convince the old originals to deliver clean fuel you'd think there would be a market for a nice original design stainless tank.

08-31-2010, 11:31 AM	#2
Tom from Drippin' Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Dripping Springs, Texas Posts: 286	Re: Reproduction gas tank? Nope. To many product liability lawyers standing in the wings! __________________ The pursuit of excellence is healthy and rewarding. The pursuit of perfection is frustrating, neurotic and a terrible waste of time.

08-31-2010, 12:03 PM	#3
BRENT in 10-uh-C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern Tennessee Posts: 11,546	Re: Reproduction gas tank? Actually, I am not sure that is the true reason Tom. There are several reproduction tanks currently made for the Model T, ...and TANKS Inc. makes many tanks for "newer" cars (1930s and up). RoadsterUte is now offering a 28-29 tank but I have not seen it in person. I feel like within the next 3-5 years you will see a generic reproduction tank offered for the M28-29 and M30-E31 Model A's. With tooling likely in the $250k+ range for each type tank, it would probably require over 1600 tanks to be sold in the retail level of $600.00 each to justify doing the project. Is there truly that kind of demand? . __________________ . BRENT in 10-uh-C . www.model-a-ford.com ...(...Finally Updated!! ) .

08-31-2010, 12:12 PM	#4
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,393	Re: Reproduction gas tank? I think it's like radiators. It's a lot of money BUT, look at the posts, so many for over heating and fuel problems that I think many would pay that kind of money just for the piece of mind. I believe it ws you whose posted pictures of a tank that was opened up to show the baffles, etc. How much would you charge for that kind of a "restoration" of the tank? A rough figure would suffice if so inclined to post. Thank you Paul in CT Fortunately my late 80's resto has had NO fuel problems.

08-31-2010, 12:20 PM	#5
BRENT in 10-uh-C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern Tennessee Posts: 11,546	Re: Reproduction gas tank? Generally speaking, it costs about $500.00 to restore a tank. Do you feel strongly enough about being able to sell them at $600 that you would sell your car/assets/etc. and go in with 24 other people and put up $10k to do the deal? In all liklihood, you are in the same boat as I in that the R.o.I. is not enough to take a gamble. . __________________ . BRENT in 10-uh-C . www.model-a-ford.com ...(...Finally Updated!! ) .

08-31-2010, 12:27 PM	#6
Wick Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gwynn's Island Va Posts: 1,417	Re: Reproduction gas tank? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Tanks are comming soon from DownUnder. This month issue of Street rodder ?theres a artical of a company building Model A truck cabs in Austraila,the artical says there going to be making gas tanks for the Model A. It could have been last months copy? Wick

08-31-2010, 01:08 PM	#7
Frank Miller Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auburn, MA Posts: 2,106	Re: Reproduction gas tank? I actually thought this was a liability issue because of the location in the occupants' lap.

08-31-2010, 01:29 PM	#9
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,496	Re: Reproduction gas tank? I always figure it was due to the outright complexity. Comparing the A-bone tanks to just about any other type and it's one complicated sombeech. The welding process alone took a fair amount of time to develop in 1927.

08-31-2010, 02:18 PM	#10
RonC Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 1,868	Re: Reproduction gas tank? A reproduction tank will most likely stick out like a sore thumb. I would prefer an insert plastic bladder that you install inside your original tank.

08-31-2010, 04:48 PM	#12
Chris in CT Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Connecticut Posts: 272	Re: Reproduction gas tank? Skeezixx, The more I think about this, the more I think a conventional, burst-proof tank designed to fit under the frame, just in front of the rear spring might work. For the driver, the added safety factor would be significant, and the old empty and cleaned tank would present a traditional cowl with the possibility of electronic and storage space inside if so desired. All you would need to do is hang the tank, and hook up an electric fuel pump with impact shutoff, and you'd be all set and much safer for passengers. Just a fantasy...

08-31-2010, 05:23 PM	#13
peters180a/170b Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Putnam Valley N.Y. Posts: 2,151	Re: Reproduction gas tank? Well if this is true its very good for the hobby. Brookville roadster company will be happy ... More sales for them .

08-31-2010, 07:09 PM	#17
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,496	Re: Reproduction gas tank? Bladders were mentioned as possibility. Bladders are used in aviation quite a bit but they require overhauls as they age. They are made by companies like Goodyear and they are expensive. You would have to cut a fairly large access port in there just to get it in then it would have to be fastened up in some way to make it keep its shape. I think I'd leave the bladders to the aircraft folks. I hate working on them that's for sure. It would be easier to cut the bottom out and install a plastic tank and that doesn't sound like much fun either. Kerby

08-31-2010, 07:35 PM	#18
BRENT in 10-uh-C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern Tennessee Posts: 11,546	Re: Reproduction gas tank? Explain to me how these "bladders" would/could work when a Model A tank if filled with baffles spot welded in the locations they are. __________________ . BRENT in 10-uh-C . www.model-a-ford.com ...(...Finally Updated!! ) .

08-31-2010, 07:38 PM	#19
MCHinson Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 401	Re: Reproduction gas tank? That is easy.... they won't! I was wondering how long it was going to take someone to point that out. I would have said it but I don't have the photos to show it like you did! Thanks.

08-31-2010, 08:02 PM	#20
Skeezixx Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 426	Re: Reproduction gas tank? Brent You bring up a good point about quality control. Offshore they don't have the safety concerns we do here in the states. Someone could take shortcuts and the results may be a nightmare. I for one wouldn't like to have my wingtips and argyle socks suddenly inundated with 11 gallons of hi test ethyl. The concept of a 32 rear mounted tank is interesting. That would give us the option of having two glove boxes and one could mount a bowling trophy or a bobblehead in the old gas cap.