The Ford Barn

Nlbloch · 06-30-2013, 03:49 PM

I am unable to start engine using electric starter. Tried using crank and notice that the engine is very hard to turn. In fact, the crank almost springs back to the starting position. I suspect there is piston binding somewhere, but don't know where to look. Car had been running only two weeks ago. Suggestions?

J Franklin · 06-30-2013, 03:58 PM

Take out the plugs and see if it is still hard to turn over. Do a compression check too.

Russ/40 · 06-30-2013, 04:09 PM

Sounds like you have a cylinder full of water. Hydra lock.

Purdy Swoft · 06-30-2013, 05:28 PM

The starter drive is hung up. Put the transmission in second gear and rock the car foward and backwards, by hand. Usually rocking the car in second gear will unlock the starter. when you hear a click, usually the starter will be unlocked and will then work again

Nlbloch · 06-30-2013, 09:30 PM

removing the plugs does allow the crank to start more easily. But then when I put the plugs back in, hard to crank.

How would one address the hydra lock problem? If opening the plugs releases the pressure does that still sound like water on the cylinder?

rollingsculpture · 06-30-2013, 10:01 PM

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just sounds like you have good compression check that your spark advance lever is in the up position and than rotate the hand crank arm up to the 1 o clock position than using your foot you may be able to push down quickly simular to the way a person kick starts a motorcycle but with a foreward kick, thats how i have to do mine and it works well, learned it from an old timer.

Russ/40 · 06-30-2013, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nlbloch

removing the plugs does allow the crank to start more easily. But then when I put the plugs back in, hard to crank.

How would one address the hydra lock problem? If opening the plugs releases the pressure does that still sound like water on the cylinder?

If there was a hydra lock issue from a leaking gasket into the cylinder, removing the plugs and cranking it would expel it out the plug hole with force. Its not likely the problem, but that would cause the problem you describe.

Duffy1 · 06-30-2013, 10:23 PM

Do not push down on the crank arm . Always pull up on the crank arm.

J Franklin · 07-01-2013, 01:18 AM

Did you ever get to see a guy go over the handlebars kick starting his motorcycle? I have, and since he was not too hurt it was hilarious. Get your camera rolling and maybe make some money on youtube. Now that you have ruled out a bound starter drive, with the plugs out, (keep them out for awhile) look into the cylinders with a light and make sure there isn't a puddle on one of the pistons or rust. It might even be prudent to crack the drain plug and see if any water drains. You may just have a tight engine and a poor starter, battery, or inadequate cables or connections.

Mike V. Florida · 07-01-2013, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J Franklin

... with the plugs out, (keep them out for awhile) look into the cylinders with a light and make sure there isn't a puddle on one of the pistons or rust. It might even be prudent to crack the drain plug and see if any water drains. You may just have a tight engine and a poor starter, battery, or inadequate cables or connections.

How many miles on the engine, what's the voltage on the battery?

Joe K · 07-01-2013, 05:38 AM

IIRC, when I hand started my car, I held the crank in my left hand, palm facing "in" and not wrapping the thumb around the crank handle. Pull UP.

A kick back in this position tends to take the handle from your hand and you have an entire revolution to get your arm out of the way (which it is mostly already) and even if hit usually knocks your hand "away."

Well, that's the theory.

And IIRC, it was Charles Kettering who invented the automobile self-starter, and this after seeing someone get their arm broken while attempting to start their car by hand. That original failed start resulted in the death of the person I believe.

So be careful out there!

Joe K

Mike V. Florida · 07-01-2013, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe K

IIRC, when I hand started my car, I held the crank in my left hand, palm facing "in" and not wrapping the thumb around the crank handle. Pull UP.

A kick back in this position tends to take the handle from your hand and you have an entire revolution to get your arm out of the way (which it is mostly already) and even if hit usually knocks your hand "away."

Well, that's the theory.

And IIRC, it was Charles Kettering who invented the automobile self-starter, and this after seeing someone get their arm broken while attempting to start their car by hand. That original failed start resulted in the death of the person I believe.

So be careful out there!

Joe K

As soon as you take something for granted it will bite you! Look up Chauffer break on the internet.

willym38 · 07-01-2013, 10:08 PM

right on Duffy 1 , i have been starting my john deer model m forever with a crank. always pull up, i.ve seen other try to kick or push down, your looking for trouble doing that, love my 1931 S/W.

1930artdeco · 07-02-2013, 01:03 AM

Is it a new engine or one that may have to many shims taken out of the mains?

Mike

06-30-2013, 03:49 PM	#1
Nlbloch Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 75	Help needed I am unable to start engine using electric starter. Tried using crank and notice that the engine is very hard to turn. In fact, the crank almost springs back to the starting position. I suspect there is piston binding somewhere, but don't know where to look. Car had been running only two weeks ago. Suggestions?

06-30-2013, 03:58 PM	#2
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 6,586	Re: Help needed Take out the plugs and see if it is still hard to turn over. Do a compression check too.

06-30-2013, 04:09 PM	#3
Russ/40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Santee, California Posts: 3,505	Re: Help needed Sounds like you have a cylinder full of water. Hydra lock.

06-30-2013, 05:28 PM	#4
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Help needed The starter drive is hung up. Put the transmission in second gear and rock the car foward and backwards, by hand. Usually rocking the car in second gear will unlock the starter. when you hear a click, usually the starter will be unlocked and will then work again

06-30-2013, 09:30 PM	#5
Nlbloch Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 75	Re: Help needed removing the plugs does allow the crank to start more easily. But then when I put the plugs back in, hard to crank. How would one address the hydra lock problem? If opening the plugs releases the pressure does that still sound like water on the cylinder?

06-30-2013, 10:01 PM	#6
rollingsculpture Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Takoma park md Posts: 271	Re: Help needed Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) just sounds like you have good compression check that your spark advance lever is in the up position and than rotate the hand crank arm up to the 1 o clock position than using your foot you may be able to push down quickly simular to the way a person kick starts a motorcycle but with a foreward kick, thats how i have to do mine and it works well, learned it from an old timer. __________________ Rust and roll will never die

06-30-2013, 10:23 PM	#8
Duffy1 Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Mo. City , Texas Posts: 725	Re: Help needed Do not push down on the crank arm . Always pull up on the crank arm.

07-01-2013, 01:18 AM	#9
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 6,586	Re: Help needed Did you ever get to see a guy go over the handlebars kick starting his motorcycle? I have, and since he was not too hurt it was hilarious. Get your camera rolling and maybe make some money on youtube. Now that you have ruled out a bound starter drive, with the plugs out, (keep them out for awhile) look into the cylinders with a light and make sure there isn't a puddle on one of the pistons or rust. It might even be prudent to crack the drain plug and see if any water drains. You may just have a tight engine and a poor starter, battery, or inadequate cables or connections. Last edited by J Franklin; 07-01-2013 at 01:26 AM.

07-01-2013, 05:38 AM	#11
Joe K Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cow Hampshire Posts: 5,018	Re: Help needed IIRC, when I hand started my car, I held the crank in my left hand, palm facing "in" and not wrapping the thumb around the crank handle. Pull UP. A kick back in this position tends to take the handle from your hand and you have an entire revolution to get your arm out of the way (which it is mostly already) and even if hit usually knocks your hand "away." Well, that's the theory. And IIRC, it was Charles Kettering who invented the automobile self-starter, and this after seeing someone get their arm broken while attempting to start their car by hand. That original failed start resulted in the death of the person I believe. So be careful out there! Joe K __________________ Shudda kept the horse.

07-01-2013, 10:08 PM	#13
willym38 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 1	Re: Help needed right on Duffy 1 , i have been starting my john deer model m forever with a crank. always pull up, i.ve seen other try to kick or push down, your looking for trouble doing that, love my 1931 S/W.

07-02-2013, 01:03 AM	#14
1930artdeco Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lynden, Wa Posts: 3,942	Re: Help needed Is it a new engine or one that may have to many shims taken out of the mains? Mike __________________ 1930 TownSedan (Briggs) 1957 Country Sedan