The Ford Barn

Tom F OHIO · 08-04-2014, 06:32 AM

I just bought one of those Nu Rex timing wrenches. Reading the directions I am not quite sure on how to use it. You are suppose to put it on the cam and turn it twice but not sure which arrows on the wrench go where. Does anyone else have one of these and maybe could explain it to me better than these directions or maybe a picture of where its suppose to be on the distributor body post.

Thanks for any help.

Tom.......

Mitch//pa · 08-04-2014, 07:49 AM

Tom,
i think where you were thrown off target a little on the instructions as it states to remove the distributor cap and rotor. the dist cap on a model A is the top where the coil wire attaches to and is held in place by the retaining clips on the dist. the body which consists of the 4 brass contacts and has the plug connectors attached stays in place. as soon as the leading edge of the wrench touches the #4 dist body contact tighten the screw..rotating it a couple times removes the backlash...

whirnot · 08-04-2014, 08:33 AM

They are a great tool, As Mitch said, leave the bakelite body of the Dist in place. Remove the rotor, Place the tool over the cam, aligning the slot. With the cam loose rotate the tool two revolutions clockwise, with the edge of the tool at the arrow stopping at the #4 Post. Tighten the cam screw.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 08-04-2014, 08:39 AM

Even the plain simple one is handy when making tiny corrections. Better than FUMBLY fingers or PLIERS! The NEW type just helps you get closer to the "ballpark" when you haven't set the timing a lot in the past.
Bill W.

DougVieyra · 08-04-2014, 12:20 PM

I have seen this 'timing wrench' (or something similar) in Bratton's catalog. I hesitate to buy it because I too am confused about the directions. While I am familiar with the cap verses body, I am not familiar with Bratton's directions "Line up the timing dots on the timing gear and the crank gear'.

In the 50 years I have been driving my Model A, I have never noticed any 'timing dots' in my timing process. To 'Time' my car, am I expected to remove the timing-gear cover to look for 'timing dots' on the actual gears?

I have always just flipped my timing gear pin to find the dimple in the timing gear and top-dead center on #1. I never saw any 'timing dots' while doing this. What am I missing? Is it communication or just a generational misfit ?

Mitch//pa · 08-04-2014, 12:25 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DougVieyra

I have seen this 'timing wrench' (or something similar) in Bratton's catalog. I hesitate to buy it because I too am confused about the directions. While I am familiar with the cap verses body, I am not familiar with Bratton's directions "Line up the timing dots on the timing gear and the crank gear'.

In the 50 years I have been driving my Model A, I have never noticed any 'timing dots' in my timing process. To 'Time' my car, am I expected to remove the timing-gear cover to look for 'timing dots' on the actual gears?

I have always just flipped my timing gear pin to find the dimple in the timing gear and top-dead center on #1. I never saw any 'timing dots' while doing this. What am I missing? Is it communication or just a generational misfit ?

on snyders instructions i don't see that
http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/up...210CX-8664.pdf

whirnot · 08-04-2014, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougVieyra

I have seen this 'timing wrench' (or something similar) in Bratton's catalog. I hesitate to buy it because I too am confused about the directions. While I am familiar with the cap verses body, I am not familiar with Bratton's directions "Line up the timing dots on the timing gear and the crank gear'.

In the 50 years I have been driving my Model A, I have never noticed any 'timing dots' in my timing process. To 'Time' my car, am I expected to remove the timing-gear cover to look for 'timing dots' on the actual gears?

I have always just flipped my timing gear pin to find the dimple in the timing gear and top-dead center on #1. I never saw any 'timing dots' while doing this. What am I missing? Is it communication or just a generational misfit ?

That is a little miscommunication, it has directions on the tool, an says to locate the dimple as you normally would, then proceed as above.

Franchise_24 · 08-04-2014, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forever4

Throw away the mickey mouse wrench and time the car according to the simple instructions in the Service Bulletins. Timing is easy. Selling useless tools is a business.

Thanks for your great contribution to this thread.

Mitch//pa · 08-04-2014, 01:39 PM

i can time a model A easily the old school way /ways with the best of them and maybe quicker hehe.
i tried the wrench for shits and giggles as it only cost around 10 bucks. it set the timing damn near close but not always spot on.

29er · 08-04-2014, 01:51 PM

I found the NuRex timing wrench to be a great learning tool. While experimenting with several methods of timing my Model A, I could double check each against the NuRex. I've tried a few methods and have discovered that Marco's works best for me:

http://www.abarnyard.com/workshop/timing.htm

That's my standard when I'm in the shop.

I've discovered the NuRex wrench comes pretty close to that so I carry the wrench in my tool bag and have used it along side the road as a quick and easy tool to get me going again. For me, the wrench is a reliable tool but I understand individual results may vary.

Mike in Oregon

Fred K-OR · 08-04-2014, 02:48 PM

I find the NuRex works great for me. That is because I am not one of the experience Model A guys. Thus I would think there are a number of us in this group that would find this tool very handy.

Once you have use the tool and read the instructions that come with it, all the instructions you need show on the handle of the tool.

Purdy Swoft · 08-04-2014, 04:29 PM

I've said before that I would buy the tool but never did. I know exactly how to set the timing and if original parts are used, there is only one way that the rotor tip should point. The tool just makes it easier in regard to backlash. I've never seen mention of backlash in Marcos timing instructions and without going and looking, I don't think that the service bullitens mention backlash either, may be wrong..When they were new they probably didn't have any backlash. Wear causes backlash and most will have up to 1/2 inch or more. Backlash in this case is the rotational free play in the distributor shaft. If a person doesn't know how to allow for or set up the direction of the backlash the timing will be way off, maybe so far that it won't even run. The distributor shaft turns in the counter clockwise direction when the engine runs but rides on the clockwise end of the backlash or free play in the shaft. Backlash-fee play in the counter clockwise direction will have no effect on timing but clockwise backlash will retard the timing. When the timing pin drops in place, the trailing end of the rotor tip should point at the number one contact in the distributor cap body after the cam screw is tightened with no clockwise backlash. In other words, when the cam screw is tightened, all of the backlash must be in the counter clockwise direction or the timing will be retarded. I think that a lot of the confusion that causes most of the model A's to not be trimed exactly correct is all of the confusing mention about spark lever and when the points open. Though it is technically correct, its just too much for the unknowing to understand and follow. The first thing that a person should do is remove all of the spark plugs so that they don't have to fight compression when tring to find the timing dimple with the timing pin and high cam on the points cam when setting the points. When the engine gets close it becomes harder to turn and causes ito go past the timing dimple or past high cam on the points cam. When the spark plugs are removed this problem no longer exists. Its always best to check and adjust points gap first. It fires when the points open so less gap retards and more gap advances. Ford said points gap could be anywhere from .018 to .022 . Most aim for a mid setting of .020 . I go for a gap of .022 it runs good anywhere within specs. The most important thing is where the rotor tip points when tightened with no clockwise backlash. I think that the problem that most have is instead of setting the points gap first, they go back and loosen and move the points cam and this disturbs where the rotor tip points and then the actual timing is way off. The points can be set anytime without loosening and moving the points cam. Simply turn the engine untill the rubbing block on the points is on the highedt point of the points cam and then adjust the points. If a person actually knows how to set the timing and where the rotor tip should point and the correct direction that the backlash should be, the tool will just make setting the timing easier, if not, explainations are generally useless.

msmaron · 08-04-2014, 05:06 PM

This tool is OUTSTANDING in a pinch, stopped on the side of the road, at a quick point change, this will set the timing in a matter of 3 minutes or less and get you to where your destination is perfectly and easy. outstanding device for the cost.. i highly recommend this all the time!@

DougVieyra · 08-04-2014, 08:06 PM

Purdy Swoft - "I've never seen mention of backlash in Marcos timing instructions"
______________________________

Yeah, Purdy, Marco does mention backlash in his website's (http://www.abarnyard.com/workshop/timing.htm) page on Timing Instructions. Look again - I am sure you will find it, it is in # 4 :

4. "Begin tightening the screw. This removes the BACKLASH in the system and the cam should remain as close to touching the rubbing block on the points as possible without opening the points. This may require multiple efforts to get it ideally positioned."

Harley03joe · 08-05-2014, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom F OHIO

I just bought one of those Nu Rex timing wrenches. Reading the directions I am not quite sure on how to use it. You are suppose to put it on the cam and turn it twice but not sure which arrows on the wrench go where. Does anyone else have one of these and maybe could explain it to me better than these directions or maybe a picture of where its suppose to be on the distributor body post.

Thanks for any help.

Tom.......

Tom Watch This Youtube Video
Enjoy
Harley03joe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwirH7f0a9o

whirnot · 08-05-2014, 08:29 AM

Purdy,

I think that was a very good and informative response. By using the rotor location, you are doing the same thing as using the tool, and it obviously works for you. The setting of the points first cannot be over emphasized.

Purdy Swoft · 08-05-2014, 11:01 AM

Thanks Bill,
I've tried to explain this simple operation for years. If the rotor tip doesn't point exactly correct the timing will be wrong, no matter where the points gap is set. .The reason that I just go ahead and first set the points gap at .022 is that it gives more time before the rubbing block wears and the points gap has to be readjusted. The wider gap advances the timing to the max before starter kick back will occur and gives the quickest throttle response. If a person is more concerned with slowest smoothest idle a smaller points gap will be better.

Smog Tech · 08-05-2014, 02:59 PM

A wide point gap gives less dwell (time the points are closed). When the points are closed energy is building up in the coil to be discharged at the spark plug when the points open. If not enough time for energy to build up, the spark plug can misfire at high speeds.
Rick

Purdy Swoft · 08-05-2014, 07:34 PM

With weak ignition it may be a problem. The advance that the wider gap gives has always worked best for me with any engine where throttle response and power was my objective. Twenty two thousants is within factory specs and can't be that bad.If you've got a weak coil small gaps may get you home. one thing for sure is that when the gap gets any less than eighteen thousants, power will begin to drop off and engine temps will begin to increase. I've seen them run with gaps at ten thousants and less but very poorly and with the exhaust manifold getting dark red. Points can be a matter of personal choice and experience. Gaps can be set at any time without changing or disturbing the actual timing where the rotor tip points.

mshmodela · 08-05-2014, 08:22 PM

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/pictur...ictureid=27991

Now compare the tool's "male notch" to the following from Marco Tahtaras as a ballpark location of the cam's "female notch"" when TOD of #1 cylinder.. about the same angle:

08-04-2014, 07:49 AM	#2
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Timing Wrench Tom, i think where you were thrown off target a little on the instructions as it states to remove the distributor cap and rotor. the dist cap on a model A is the top where the coil wire attaches to and is held in place by the retaining clips on the dist. the body which consists of the 4 brass contacts and has the plug connectors attached stays in place. as soon as the leading edge of the wrench touches the #4 dist body contact tighten the screw..rotating it a couple times removes the backlash... Last edited by Mitch//pa; 08-04-2014 at 08:51 AM.

08-04-2014, 08:33 AM	#3
whirnot Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Bend Or. Posts: 1,057	Re: Timing Wrench They are a great tool, As Mitch said, leave the bakelite body of the Dist in place. Remove the rotor, Place the tool over the cam, aligning the slot. With the cam loose rotate the tool two revolutions clockwise, with the edge of the tool at the arrow stopping at the #4 Post. Tighten the cam screw. __________________ Bill Worden 1929 Roadster 1929 Briggs Town Sedan 1930 Closed Cab pickup Smith Motor Compressor 1951 Ford F1 High Desert Model A's

08-04-2014, 12:20 PM	#5
DougVieyra Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Eureka, California Posts: 1,716	Re: Timing Wrench I have seen this 'timing wrench' (or something similar) in Bratton's catalog. I hesitate to buy it because I too am confused about the directions. While I am familiar with the cap verses body, I am not familiar with Bratton's directions "Line up the timing dots on the timing gear and the crank gear'. In the 50 years I have been driving my Model A, I have never noticed any 'timing dots' in my timing process. To 'Time' my car, am I expected to remove the timing-gear cover to look for 'timing dots' on the actual gears? I have always just flipped my timing gear pin to find the dimple in the timing gear and top-dead center on #1. I never saw any 'timing dots' while doing this. What am I missing? Is it communication or just a generational misfit ?

08-04-2014, 01:39 PM	#9
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Timing Wrench i can time a model A easily the old school way /ways with the best of them and maybe quicker hehe. i tried the wrench for shits and giggles as it only cost around 10 bucks. it set the timing damn near close but not always spot on. Last edited by Mitch//pa; 12-26-2015 at 08:25 PM.

08-04-2014, 01:51 PM	#10
29er Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Oregon Posts: 465	Re: Timing Wrench I found the NuRex timing wrench to be a great learning tool. While experimenting with several methods of timing my Model A, I could double check each against the NuRex. I've tried a few methods and have discovered that Marco's works best for me: http://www.abarnyard.com/workshop/timing.htm That's my standard when I'm in the shop. I've discovered the NuRex wrench comes pretty close to that so I carry the wrench in my tool bag and have used it along side the road as a quick and easy tool to get me going again. For me, the wrench is a reliable tool but I understand individual results may vary. Mike in Oregon

08-04-2014, 06:32 AM	#1
Tom F OHIO Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mansfield, Ohio Posts: 420	Timing Wrench I just bought one of those Nu Rex timing wrenches. Reading the directions I am not quite sure on how to use it. You are suppose to put it on the cam and turn it twice but not sure which arrows on the wrench go where. Does anyone else have one of these and maybe could explain it to me better than these directions or maybe a picture of where its suppose to be on the distributor body post. Thanks for any help. Tom.......

08-04-2014, 08:39 AM	#4
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Timing Wrench Even the plain simple one is handy when making tiny corrections. Better than FUMBLY fingers or PLIERS! The NEW type just helps you get closer to the "ballpark" when you haven't set the timing a lot in the past. Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

08-04-2014, 02:48 PM	#11
Fred K-OR Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Stayton, Oregon Posts: 3,806	Re: Timing Wrench I find the NuRex works great for me. That is because I am not one of the experience Model A guys. Thus I would think there are a number of us in this group that would find this tool very handy. Once you have use the tool and read the instructions that come with it, all the instructions you need show on the handle of the tool. __________________ Fred Kroon 1929 Std Coupe 1929 Huckster

08-04-2014, 04:29 PM	#12
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Timing Wrench I've said before that I would buy the tool but never did. I know exactly how to set the timing and if original parts are used, there is only one way that the rotor tip should point. The tool just makes it easier in regard to backlash. I've never seen mention of backlash in Marcos timing instructions and without going and looking, I don't think that the service bullitens mention backlash either, may be wrong..When they were new they probably didn't have any backlash. Wear causes backlash and most will have up to 1/2 inch or more. Backlash in this case is the rotational free play in the distributor shaft. If a person doesn't know how to allow for or set up the direction of the backlash the timing will be way off, maybe so far that it won't even run. The distributor shaft turns in the counter clockwise direction when the engine runs but rides on the clockwise end of the backlash or free play in the shaft. Backlash-fee play in the counter clockwise direction will have no effect on timing but clockwise backlash will retard the timing. When the timing pin drops in place, the trailing end of the rotor tip should point at the number one contact in the distributor cap body after the cam screw is tightened with no clockwise backlash. In other words, when the cam screw is tightened, all of the backlash must be in the counter clockwise direction or the timing will be retarded. I think that a lot of the confusion that causes most of the model A's to not be trimed exactly correct is all of the confusing mention about spark lever and when the points open. Though it is technically correct, its just too much for the unknowing to understand and follow. The first thing that a person should do is remove all of the spark plugs so that they don't have to fight compression when tring to find the timing dimple with the timing pin and high cam on the points cam when setting the points. When the engine gets close it becomes harder to turn and causes ito go past the timing dimple or past high cam on the points cam. When the spark plugs are removed this problem no longer exists. Its always best to check and adjust points gap first. It fires when the points open so less gap retards and more gap advances. Ford said points gap could be anywhere from .018 to .022 . Most aim for a mid setting of .020 . I go for a gap of .022 it runs good anywhere within specs. The most important thing is where the rotor tip points when tightened with no clockwise backlash. I think that the problem that most have is instead of setting the points gap first, they go back and loosen and move the points cam and this disturbs where the rotor tip points and then the actual timing is way off. The points can be set anytime without loosening and moving the points cam. Simply turn the engine untill the rubbing block on the points is on the highedt point of the points cam and then adjust the points. If a person actually knows how to set the timing and where the rotor tip should point and the correct direction that the backlash should be, the tool will just make setting the timing easier, if not, explainations are generally useless.

08-04-2014, 05:06 PM	#13
msmaron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wauconda, IL Posts: 3,600	Re: Timing Wrench This tool is OUTSTANDING in a pinch, stopped on the side of the road, at a quick point change, this will set the timing in a matter of 3 minutes or less and get you to where your destination is perfectly and easy. outstanding device for the cost.. i highly recommend this all the time!@ __________________ Mark Maron Ill., Region MARC & MAFCA MARC JSC Member MAFFI Trustee National Facebook Admin. https://www.facebook.com/groups/MARC.group/ A7191-Sport Coupe 29 Roadster 29-Town Sedan 29-Original Special Coupe

08-04-2014, 08:06 PM	#14
DougVieyra Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Eureka, California Posts: 1,716	Re: Timing Wrench Purdy Swoft - "I've never seen mention of backlash in Marcos timing instructions" ______________________________ Yeah, Purdy, Marco does mention backlash in his website's (http://www.abarnyard.com/workshop/timing.htm) page on Timing Instructions. Look again - I am sure you will find it, it is in # 4 : 4. "Begin tightening the screw. This removes the BACKLASH in the system and the cam should remain as close to touching the rubbing block on the points as possible without opening the points. This may require multiple efforts to get it ideally positioned." Last edited by DougVieyra; 08-04-2014 at 08:19 PM.

08-05-2014, 08:29 AM	#16
whirnot Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Bend Or. Posts: 1,057	Re: Timing Wrench Purdy, I think that was a very good and informative response. By using the rotor location, you are doing the same thing as using the tool, and it obviously works for you. The setting of the points first cannot be over emphasized. __________________ Bill Worden 1929 Roadster 1929 Briggs Town Sedan 1930 Closed Cab pickup Smith Motor Compressor 1951 Ford F1 High Desert Model A's

08-05-2014, 11:01 AM	#17
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Timing Wrench Thanks Bill, I've tried to explain this simple operation for years. If the rotor tip doesn't point exactly correct the timing will be wrong, no matter where the points gap is set. .The reason that I just go ahead and first set the points gap at .022 is that it gives more time before the rubbing block wears and the points gap has to be readjusted. The wider gap advances the timing to the max before starter kick back will occur and gives the quickest throttle response. If a person is more concerned with slowest smoothest idle a smaller points gap will be better.

08-05-2014, 02:59 PM	#18
Smog Tech Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Arcadia, CA Posts: 145	Re: Timing Wrench A wide point gap gives less dwell (time the points are closed). When the points are closed energy is building up in the coil to be discharged at the spark plug when the points open. If not enough time for energy to build up, the spark plug can misfire at high speeds. Rick

08-05-2014, 07:34 PM	#19
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Timing Wrench With weak ignition it may be a problem. The advance that the wider gap gives has always worked best for me with any engine where throttle response and power was my objective. Twenty two thousants is within factory specs and can't be that bad.If you've got a weak coil small gaps may get you home. one thing for sure is that when the gap gets any less than eighteen thousants, power will begin to drop off and engine temps will begin to increase. I've seen them run with gaps at ten thousants and less but very poorly and with the exhaust manifold getting dark red. Points can be a matter of personal choice and experience. Gaps can be set at any time without changing or disturbing the actual timing where the rotor tip points.

08-05-2014, 08:22 PM	#20
mshmodela Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 2,763	Re: Timing Wrench http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/pictur...ictureid=27991 Now compare the tool's "male notch" to the following from Marco Tahtaras as a ballpark location of the cam's "female notch"" when TOD of #1 cylinder.. about the same angle: __________________ -Mike Late 31' Ford Model A Tudor, Miss Daisy I don't work on cars --I'm learning about my Model A. Cleveland, Ohio Last edited by mshmodela; 08-06-2014 at 08:07 PM.