first distributor timing attempt

[30 A Ripper]

probably just newbe-itis but several things have me wondering.

1. rotor to body gap varies. body can move about unless cap on and latches secured. not sure how to measure rotor/body gap with this lossness. Do new caps usually fit tighter even without "latches" secured?
I don't remember this problem in my earlier years..
2.hand cranking and trying to keep an eyeball on the cam high spot in order to check points is tough. is it a single high spot or something larger that I'm shooting for? points appear to be .030+
3.Bytheway, my plugs were at .030 also and I regapped to .025 after cleaning.
4.it appears to me that the distributor has no vertical play due to bushing wear as no wiggle can be induced. (that's with the cam screw tight). Hoping something is going my way...

Is there a forum for dummies? Feeling that way the farther I go and find complications with the simple printed instructions.

Dick

[Tom Wesenberg]

Some poor (loose) repro distributor parts have been made, but the bodies I got from Bratton's and Little Dearborn fit snug, like they should.

.030" is fine for the plugs, but try to keep the points at .020".

Plugs removed help to set the timing. Bring the engine around until the timing pin drops into the cam gear dimple, then the points for #1 should just be starting to open with the spark lever full UP, and the rotor should be in the position shown in my picture. My rotor looks different because I balanced it.

[Fred K-OR]

Yes this forum is for dommies like me. I have been hanging around here for awhile and they have not thrown me off yet-but guess I better watch out.

Dick, I think the easy way to time your rig is to get one of these distributor timing tools made by NU-Rex (I think). Most of the vendors have them. Cost about $10. With it you just get your timing pin in the engine set and then you just use this thing to turn the cam to where it is suppose to be for piston #1.

Here is the info from Bert's http://parts.modelastore.com/show_Product.asp?ID=4230 but all vendors have them.

The body of your distributor should not move. Is the set screw on the side of the head tight enough?

Points should be around .02.

[silversink]

.20

[QGolden]

Hi
Lots of resources available to help you understand timing. Here are two of my favorites.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3Xc7r0d...%3D3Xc7r0djEKo


http://modelabasics.com/Ignition.htm

[Barry B./ Ma.]

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Any thing more than .020 and the points may not close therefore no make and break so I tend to start at .019.

[30 A Ripper]

Fred,
It is the removable plastic body that is fitting loosely on the distributor itself. I could order a replacement from Brattons as Tom found them to be good tight reproductions.

I did get a Nu-Rex wench for timing but am a little hung up mentally having that loose fitting plastic body and being not able to get a consistant .025 for rotor/body gap. Also back in my day, points gap had to be established before timing.
So I'm confused about the Nu-Rex not saying anything about points timing.

Okay, now that I've read and reread this, maybe my best way is just forget the rotor gap since securing the body & cap with the straps actually sets the gap (my car did run previously), then set the points and then use Nu-Rex wench for the timing...This avoids waiting for a new body to arrive.

What do you guys think?

Dick

[Purdy Swoft]

I don't use the so called modern points but I have set my points at .022 for many years. The Ford specs for points gap is .018 to .022 . As far as air gap at the rotor tip, I set mine at .035 and the spark plugs at the same gap for hotter spark . If you have an old distributor cap cover, the part that the coil wire connects to , it can have the sides cut off right at the edge of where the clamps hold and it will hold the distributor cap body tight against the cast iron distributor housing . With this temporary setup, you should have room to measure the air gaps at the rotor tip with a feeler gauge. I'm content to hold my dist. cap body with one hand and measure air gaps with the other. The best way to do this is with the spark plugs removed so that you don't have to fight compression. Every time that it nears the top of the compression stroke, the engine gets harder to turn and you will go past the timing mark if you don't first remove the spark plugs . The same goes for finding high cam in the distributor when setting the points. With all of the spark plugs removed the engine is easy to turn and I can reach over and grasp the fan belt and turn the engine while watching the distributor for high cam when setting the points. If your engine is too tight to turn in this manner , you will need some crank turning help. If you use the fan belt to turn the engine be careful not to get fingers pinched between the fan pulley and the belt, its happened and it doesn't feel good. There are four high spots or lobes on the points cam, this is where you measure points gap. I set my points at .022 and in that way it will take longer before the points rubbing block wears enough that the points have to be readjusted . This setting slightly advances the timing for crisp throttle responce. As for where the rotor tip should point, when the timing pin drops in place, the trailing edge of the rotor tip should align with the number one contact in the distributor cap exactly like Tom has it pictured above with no clockwise backlash. There will usually be up to 1/2 half inch of rotational movement in the distributor shaft, this is backlash. The distributor shaft rides on the clockwise side of the backlash. All of the backlash must be in the counter clockwise direction where it doesn't effect timing. If clockwise backlash is allowed to remain after the cam screw is tightened the timing will end up retarded. This is the sweet spot where you want the distributor to fire. With the spark lever fully retarded, the points should be just ready to open. I set my timing a tad fast. If you have the distributor cam locked down the way that I have decribed with the rotor tip pointing exactly like Tom has it pictured, It should run pretty good with the poiints set anywhere from .018 to .022. If you want the timing set at exact specs , adjust the points so that they are just ready to open when the timing pin drops in place with the spark lever fully retarded. I hope this explains the operation in a way that you can understand.

[Fred K-OR]

Originally Posted by 30 A Ripper

Fred,
It is the removable plastic body that is fitting loosely on the distributor itself. I could order a replacement from Brattons as Tom found them to be good tight reproductions.

I did get a Nu-Rex wench for timing but am a little hung up mentally having that loose fitting plastic body and being not able to get a consistant .025 for rotor/body gap. Also back in my day, points gap had to be established before timing.
So I'm confused about the Nu-Rex not saying anything about points timing.

Okay, now that I've read and reread this, maybe my best way is just forget the rotor gap since securing the body & cap with the straps actually sets the gap (my car did run previously), then set the points and then use Nu-Rex wench for the timing...This avoids waiting for a new body to arrive.

What do you guys think?

Dick

Dick,

I found on one of my cap bodies, that the spark arm hit the edge of the slot for it and thus the body would not sit solid. You may want to check that and if it is a problem, just file out a bit of it.

[700rpm]

Originally Posted by Fred K-OR

Dick,

I found on one of my cap bodies, that the spark arm hit the edge of the slot for it and thus the body would not sit solid. You may want to check that and if it is a problem, just file out a bit of it.

Fred, I don't think it's a good idea to file the distributor body. That gap limits the movement of the spark advance to correct specs. If the upper plate arm is hitting the disributor body, the problem lies with the position of the spark rod, and that's what needs to be corrected. Allowing the spark rod to move too much by filing the body can have a detrimental effect on your timing, and ultimately potentially on your main bearings.

[30 A Ripper]

Fred,
good tip but not my problem upon inspection again.

unfortunately I now noticed that I don't have full retart movement as I did before doing the timing , etc.

I don't see any adjustment capability on the spark rods but kind of remember ssomething about rotating the steering column if one had the correct type????

kind of wish I hadn't started this journey to check everythihg to spec <G>.

Dick

[Will N]

Any time you fiddle with the point gap you're changing the timing, and your best to go through the whole timing process. It's so simple that I can't understand all the angst and aftermarket tools developed. Remove the pin, find TDC, loosen the dist cam, turn the loose cam to put the points on the high spot (no need to turn the engine) set the point gap, make sure the breaker plate is fully retarded, turn the cam counter clockwise (to take the play out) so that the points are just closing as the rotor points toward the #1 terminal, tighten the cam. That's all there's to it. I can do it in less than 5 minutes.

The variations in the rotor to dist body gap are due to a poor repro dist body. I've had good luck with the ones from Brattons. You can file down the metal terminals in the dist body to make them all match the widest gap you find of the four, provided the gap isn't too wide. I forget off the top of my head what the recommended gap should be, but for some reason .025 stays in my head.

[Purdy Swoft]

That is one of the things that I forgot to mention in post number 8 last night . If your model A is a 30-31 it came with the two tooth steering column. There is a clamp where the column tube connects to the steering housing. Loosen the lower clamp and loosen the clamp inside the car. The column tube can then be rotated so as to give full retard and advance. If you have the seven tooth steering that was used in 28 and most of 29 the easiest way to go is to make up a longer spark rod out of two by cutting and reconnecting. Don't enlarge the window at the rear of the distributor cap body.

[Fred K-OR]

Originally Posted by 700rpm

Fred, I don't think it's a good idea to file the distributor body. That gap limits the movement of the spark advance to correct specs. If the upper plate arm is hitting the disributor body, the problem lies with the position of the spark rod, and that's what needs to be corrected. Allowing the spark rod to move too much by filing the body can have a detrimental effect on your timing, and ultimately potentially on your main bearings.

Thanks for the tip Ray. I will remember that.

[Purdy Swoft]

It needs to be made clear that the MOST important thing about the timing is where the rotor tip points, so I will say it again .The the trailing edge of the rotor tip needs to point EXACTLY as Tom Wesenberg has it pictured. If backlash remains in the clockwise direction it most likely won't run . There is only one way to correctly set the timing and anybody that thinks different doesn't know how to set the timing!!! Most timing instructions never mention backlash. Its true that more points gap advances timing because the spark occurs when the points open but it doesn't make a damn what the points gap is if the rotor tip isn't correctly pointed with no clockwise backlash.If the rotor tip is correctly it will run good with the points set anywhere from .018 to .022 . When it gets down to exact specs, The points need to be just ready to open when the timing pin drops in place with the rotor tip pointed as described with the spark fully retarded and no clockwise backlash. It is just that simple. I think that most put too much stock in points adjustment and end up with the rotor tip incorrectly adjusted and in the process add clockwise backlash .

[30 A Ripper]

just checked and have 2 tooth unit. I see how tube rotation can give more retard but wonder what that does for the throttle lever on column.

Dick

[700rpm]

Originally Posted by 30 A Ripper

just checked and have 2 tooth unit. I see how tube rotation can give more retard but wonder what that does for the throttle lever on column.

Dick

No problem.

[insomniacshotrods]

I took my car into town and back for the first time 18 miles or so, on the way home at 45 mph i heard it backfire every now and then. That night i thought id check timing,never done it how hard can it be ? Pulled the pin turned it around. Found my hand crank,inserted tried to turn and wouldnt budge. Realized i didnt put it in far enough da..Newbie ha. Then i tried cranking it darn pin came out of crank handle. Fixed that, i felt the indention on the cam gear once but went past it. Crap, tried to back it up cant with the crank handle da. Put car in third and pushed it back , brakes are dragging from my expert adjustments ha. After cranking and cranking bent over trying to find that blasted hole for the pin to go into I thought i got it. Adjusted the timing and it ran like crap. Tried it all over again and after cranking enough to go to the moon i never could hit that darn hole again. My back has hurt for 2 days and the car is still sitting torn apart. The hole time doing this process i kept saying there has got to be a better way of doing this. Ive timed different cars with no problems till this ha..So hats off to the ones that have it down. I just cant find the blasted hole to get the ball started,the pin doesnt actually go into the gear right? It just has a shallow indention? Ive read to sharpen the end of the pin some i might try that.

[Tom Wesenberg]

If your hand crank has a pin, then it's not original, but should still work, as long as the size is right. For ease of hand cranking, remove the 4 spark plugs, then crank the engine until the rotor os ALMOST to the position I have pictured. I press the pin in with my left hand while I pull the crank with my right hand. If you have to pull the crank more than 90* then just engage the next notch for the hand crank to give the best angle to pull.

If you go past the dimple in the cam gear be sure to back up the crankshaft far enough so you have to come forward again to take up the backlash, or crank it around just short of two full turns on the crankshaft, then slowly pull the crank to feel for the timing dimple.

[insomniacshotrods]

Hey thanks Tom. I found this http://youtu.be/mwirH7f0a9o and wish i would have seen it before about the rotor position, i was listening for and could feel the compression stroke but couldnt tell if it was no 1 or not i was hearing. I usually use my compression gauge on my sbc ,but i dont have an adapter for the model a engine. I need to make up a light. I read it in the book,but im more of a see it get it type guy. Im sure next time will go better , also no beer this time. Thanks