what does the "AR" stand for

[Steve Plucker]

Ken and Deron,

Just what is the assembly plant information on the BODY subrail?

That would be interesting to know.

Pluck

[Tom Wesenberg]

AR is simply an expression used by pirates.

[dlshady]

Originally Posted by Steve Plucker

Ken and Deron,

Just what is the assembly plant information on the BODY subrail?

That would be interesting to know.

Pluck

I've often thought the same thing Steve. Unfortunately, the guy that I bought my car from was going to "restore" it and scrapped the original subrails in favor of some reproductions, and poor quality ones at that.... Hopefully Ken can provide a little more insight, and it might be worth emailing the guy with the sedan on eBay to see if he'd be willing to look at his car. It looks solid enough that the numbers should be clearly visible.

Deron

[Steve Plucker]

Deron,

If the "sedan" on ebay is a Tudor Sedan, then yes, it very well may have the assembly plant stamping. However if it is a "sedan" without a metal body subrail for the front seat riser, then I doubt it will have a stamping???

Pluck

[Ken Ehrenhofer]

Funny I have never looked at that, You got me! I will look later today and report back,
Ken

[dlshady]

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Originally Posted by Steve Plucker

Deron,

If the "sedan" on ebay is a Tudor Sedan, then yes, it very well may have the assembly plant stamping. However if it is a "sedan" without a metal body subrail for the front seat riser, then I doubt it will have a stamping???

Pluck

Steve,

Yes, its a Tudor. Here's the link to it: Model A Tudor on eBay

It looks to have been converted to hydraulic brakes, but the hole in the subrail for the emergency brake handle is clearly visible and you can make out the early wheels in one or two of the photos. It also has some other early looking features such as the long choke rod bracket. Might be worth an email to the fellow. Heck, if I didn't have so many unfinished project I might even consider buying the car because, other than the brake conversion it looks pretty well unmolested.

Deron

[t42]

Regarding "29 Wagon's question. I have asked this question many times in the AACA forum, and the T forum, but have received mixed answers. Did the first 1000 or so AR or VE Model A's use 5 inch bolt pattern hubs and also use 26/27 style wire wheels? My late 27 T has perfect wire wheels for the 27 T era, the only problem is that the hubcap opening is 2.75 (early AR cap size) whereas the T cap is 2.5 inches. Did the early models use 5 inch bolt pattern hubs until the change over to 5.5 inches in 28?
Thanks
Skip in MN

['29wagon]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

AR is simply an expression used by pirates.

It's "Arg" if you want to be specific, matey

[dlshady]

Originally Posted by t42

Regarding "29 Wagon's question. I have asked this question many times in the AACA forum, and the T forum, but have received mixed answers. Did the first 1000 or so AR or VE Model A's use 5 inch bolt pattern hubs and also use 26/27 style wire wheels? My late 27 T has perfect wire wheels for the 27 T era, the only problem is that the hubcap opening is 2.75 (early AR cap size) whereas the T cap is 2.5 inches. Did the early models use 5 inch bolt pattern hubs until the change over to 5.5 inches in 28?
Thanks
Skip in MN

Skip,

Unless I'm badly mistaken there are only two styles of 21" Model A wheels, the early ones for the left hand brake cars and the more common later ones. IF there is a variation in bolt circles and center cap diameters (and I say that with a big IF) it might have been during the T production rather than after the A was introduced. I've only owned one T in my lifetime and it had wooden wheels, so I know very little about the running production changes for Model Ts. A more likely explanation would be if someone through the years opened up the center holes to accept an aftermarket or possibly an "A" center cap.


Deron

['29wagon]

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6782

[t42]

Deron,
I thought that it might be possible that someone could have opened up the centers, but I have come across four other T owners that have the larger hubcap opening. If it is strickly a T variation, I can understand and accept that. If there are any real early AR's out there with 5 inch bolt circle drums and hubs, I would know for sure that the late T wire wheels were modified to be used on the first 500 or so A's.
Just searching for info.
Thanks
Skip

[dlshady]

Originally Posted by t42

Deron,
I thought that it might be possible that someone could have opened up the centers, but I have come across four other T owners that have the larger hubcap opening. If it is strickly a T variation, I can understand and accept that. If there are any real early AR's out there with 5 inch bolt circle drums and hubs, I would know for sure that the late T wire wheels were modified to be used on the first 500 or so A's.
Just searching for info.
Thanks
Skip

Skip,

There are roughly 20 3-digit Model A's documented with A189 being the lowest serial number that has surfaced to date, and that car happens to be owned by an active FordBarner here. Perhaps he will chime in soon, but I have personal knowledge of A745 (known the car for 30+ years) and I can tell you with certainty that it has the normal Model A bolt pattern and the typical early 1928 wheels. I learned a long time ago to never say never, but I've been fascinated with the early 28's since I was old enough to understand that they were different, and I've never heard of any variations in the wheels (other than the early vs. late wheels).

Your wheels are either modified 26-27 T wheels or (most likely) a late 27 production change, but certainly not Model A. I think your best bet is to find someone on the Model T judging standards comittee and see if they can't verify that.

Deron