Snyder's Head Problem

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by theHIGHLANDER

How do you all install block studs? It's always been my thought and M O to simply seal them and run em in finger tight. That being the case, what's the issue with 1 turn up? Isn't the idea of a stud to turn in the base as the nut torques? Maybe I'm too anal about that detail, but it works in race motors up to 15:1. Also, if the block is that bad it might be time for some threaded inserts. Not heli-coil, bad idea in some blocks...just sayin?

Anytime you use a stud in anything, the stud is, and should always be wrench tight!

If you don't, you will be pulling on the threads, rather then the block, and you have created a weak link.


Herm.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Good Grief, There are lots of companies that pour engine cast. finding a U.S. Co. to pour is easy, its the mold that has to be made right, as far as venting to make them fill out in all corners, and the right amount of shrinkage that is needed. So if the mold isn't right, the pours will be bad. The final say on where it will be cast at, ALWAYS COMES DOWN TO MONEY! But it is the Responsibility of who ever had a product made, to make sure the item is made right, before ther put out for sale, not just to recoup your losses on the flawed batch. What would you say, these are made with flaws, but they are good enough for you, you can always wait for the next batch, and buy a good one at the same price. I wonder who would except a flawed bearing from me! Should I say, better luck next time!

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting

Good Grief, There are lots of companies that pour engine cast. finding a U.S. Co. to pour is easy, its the mold that has to be made right, as far as venting to make them fill out in all corners, and the right amount of shrinkage that is needed. So if the mold isn't right, the pours will be bad. The final say on where it will be cast at, ALWAYS COMES DOWN TO MONEY! But it is the Responsibility of who ever had a product made, to make sure the item is made right, before ther put out for sale, not just to recoup your losses on the flawed batch. What would you say, these are made with flaws, but they are good enough for you, you can always wait for the next batch, and buy a good one at the same price. I wonder who would except a flawed bearing from me! Should I say, better luck next time!

Amen to that! Can't have a dime of my money for flawed product. Geeze , we have enough of that already in this 'hobby'..where 'you have to buy it to see if it fits the application' and if it doesn't then make it fit .

While I'm not an engineer, it doesn't make any sense for FORD to engineer a block with X number of threads ANYWHERE in that block....and not have them used for the purpose intended. And, my understanding relating to torque and head studs and nuts is that....studs screwed in all the way provide sufficient holding strength to hold without breaking , under the intended torque; while the function of the head nuts is to provide the clamping force (TORQUE) to fords specs. Now, someone explain to me how this works when done in a NEW block vs 80 some year old block threads...and the torque that ford engineered and even the HIGHER torque that we use today....with less thread useage

[hardtimes]

J&M,
It's nice to know that YOU do the good work that you state and state logic that matches your good work. Wish your business was on the left coast!
I posted below before seeing you post, or I wouldn't have posted my thots, as you did a better job saying , in essence, same same.
One question: did you take down the dist mounting surface same amount , for dist shaft to fit accurately...or wasn't that necessary?

[TinCup]

I have been sourcing parts overseas since the 70's and you are right it always comes down to money. Profit margins always interfere with quality. I can build an exact replica of any golf club manufactured today with the same components. I can also build and exact replica with sub standard materials with the same look. Higher profit margins less quality.

I don't discount the complications in building this product but to ask your customer to fix what you should have already done is a sham. Who wouldn't spend a little more on a part "Guaranteed To Fit".

Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting

Good Grief, There are lots of companies that pour engine cast. finding a U.S. Co. to pour is easy, its the mold that has to be made right, as far as venting to make them fill out in all corners, and the right amount of shrinkage that is needed. So if the mold isn't right, the pours will be bad. The final say on where it will be cast at, ALWAYS COMES DOWN TO MONEY! But it is the Responsibility of who ever had a product made, to make sure the item is made right, before ther put out for sale, not just to recoup your losses on the flawed batch. What would you say, these are made with flaws, but they are good enough for you, you can always wait for the next batch, and buy a good one at the same price. I wonder who would except a flawed bearing from me! Should I say, better luck next time!

[J and M Machine]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by hardtimes

J&M,
It's nice to know that YOU do the good work that you state and state logic that matches your good work. Wish your business was on the left coast!
I posted below before seeing you post, or I wouldn't have posted my thots, as you did a better job saying , in essence, same same.
One question: did you take down the dist mounting surface same amount , for dist shaft to fit accurately...or wasn't that necessary?

We've haven't machined the boss for the distributor as we've found that it's ok where it's at.

[Mitch]

I'm not familiar with the process used to complete the manufacture of the head, but if the stud bosses are machine in the first place (as obviously the surface that mates against the block is), then why not machine to the original/correct dimesions?

[Purdy Swoft]

It would cost them more money to fix the bad batch of heads. They don't want to go to the trouble of offering a set of special studs that would solve the problem, even though that would give them another product to sell.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Just to muddy up the waters here, ...if the stud is a 7/16 -14 threads, doesn't that mean that 14 complete turns of the stud equal's one inch? I know that Larry said the head was 1/4" thicker over stock but I also read above that meskhov's experiences were that it was 1/16th" too thick. If the 1/16th' measurement is indeed true, wouldn't that only be one complete revolution of the stud necessary to equal the length needed to make up the difference? Folks, why are we being so picky when most everything on the vehicle we are OK with it being out of tolerances by more than "one thread", ...right??

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

J & M John said, they took of .050 thousandths off the top of the bolt holes to utilize the head bolt, and I would not question that measurement at all, and that made the nuts level with the top of the stud, like they should be.

Now that was the head that J & M had. What makes any body think the all the heads are the same out .050 thousandths, could it be that they very, you wouldn't know unless you checked!

PICKY, we have seen on here many times "WHAT NOT BEING PICKY DOES" to an engine! I guess you wouldn't have to be picky, if it isn't your engine!

Tight stud bolts in anything is Basic Knowledge, and no, that is not even being picky, just what has to be done! Makes a Guy wonder, what other Information would be considered menial!

[Fred K-OR]

Originally Posted by Mitch

I'm not familiar with the process used to complete the manufacture of the head, but if the stud bosses are machine in the first place (as obviously the surface that mates against the block is), then why not machine to the original/correct dimesions?

Not knowing exactly what I am talking about, but this seems to me like a way to go.

[Aok]

I only have one question if it is not correct why is it not being returned to the vendor ? It is not a custom item so why is anyone bothering to fix a venders errors ?

[awander]

I am trying to understand a couple of things.

The A engine seems to be built like a tank, and 5.5 or 6:1 compression is low-compression in almost every other sense than the A engine. Why worry about 1 less thread into the block? Has anyone actually busted a head by not having the studs all teh way in?

Why should studs be tight in the block? As far as I know, when a stud or bolt goes into a threaded hole, the entire force of the connection is contained in 3 or 4 threads. Is the theory that making teh stud tight moves those 3 or 4 theads deeper into teh bolck?

[James Rogers]

What does it matter, the studs are incorrect also. The only way to simulate Ford's original specs is to use NOS studs and mill the head to factory specs. Pouring the cast iron is not the problem, the machining is.

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by Aok

I only have one question if it is not correct why is it not being returned to the vendor ? It is not a custom item so why is anyone bothering to fix a venders errors ?

In this case, many people want an original appearing head with a higher than original compression. The Snyder heads are the only heads of this type available.

[Mikeinnj]

Is this a recent problem with the 5.5 Snyder head as I bought one a year ago and have not installed it yet. Does any one know this info ? Thanks in advance.

[bbrocksr]

Studs should always be tight,Common sense will tell you why. Some manufacturers have a torque for their studs.
If your building a less than quality engine then I guess less than quality work is okay.
Bill

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

I wonder if a guy would ask the two Boys that are pouring the two new Model A blocks about which was harder to do, getting a good pour for a block, or the machining of said blocks!! What would the answer would be???

If building workable patterns was easy, anybody could do it!

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

I can't believe that ANYONE WOULD NOT SEAT THE STUDS TIGHTLY!! That's how they were intended to be installed!!
When they're loose, they wobbble, if the stud turns while torqueing, then you're tightening with the coarse threads which equals LESS TORQUE. This way violates all the rules of common sense, proper assembly.
If any stud hole has water below it, it'll leak like a sieve up around the stud & nut.
I always use Locite to seal the threads & tighten them to 10 Ft Lbs.
Ya'll do what you want, but mine don't leak!! Bill W.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting

I wonder if a guy would ask the two Boys that are pouring the two new Model A blocks about which was harder to do, getting a good pour for a block, or the machining of said blocks!! What would the answer would be???

If building workable patterns was easy, anybody could do it!

Herm,
This past week, I rec'd the latest email regarding the 'progress' of the attempts to make the new Model A block. I think that the email alluded to the TENTH block pour attempt. Apparently, you are correct in you belief regarding pouring cast/pattern creations vs machining.