Rebuilt Generator installed: Higher the RPM the more discharge

[bogiediver]

I see some pics were added - here's a simple (& crude) line drawing...

What I refer to as the cutout screw should have the wire leading to the terminal box and the wire leading to the horn (2 wires) attached.

What I refer to as the generator stud is the output of the generator, which should have no wires attached, just a nut to hold contact with the cutout terminal.

Also attached is the well shared color wiring diagram...

Looks like yours is correct for the cutout attachment and wiring.

To 'polarize' the generator - as long as you have a standard cutout (i.e. not a diode version or a voltage regulator version) - touch a wire from the cutout screw to the generator stud for just a brief moment.

Hope this helps.

[Theo]

Originally Posted by bogiediver

I see some pics were added - here's a simple (& crude) line drawing...

What I refer to as the cutout screw should have the wire leading to the terminal box and the wire leading to the horn (2 wires) attached.

What I refer to as the generator stud is the output of the generator, which should have no wires attached, just a nut to hold contact with the cutout terminal.

Also attached is the well shared color wiring diagram...

Looks like yours is correct for the cutout attachment and wiring.

To 'polarize' the generator - as long as you have a standard cutout (i.e. not a diode version or a voltage regulator version) - touch a wire from the cutout screw to the generator stud for just a brief moment.

Hope this helps.

Just did what you said, and polarized the generator. Im still having the same problem. At idle it is at around -2 and if you floor it or give it gas is bounces between -10 and -20

[bogiediver]

I ain't no expert - but that really sounds like the same issue I had and it was simply the ammeter wired backwards... the behavior you are describing would be correct if it were to the 'charge' side... (i.e. idle @ +2; give it RPM and jumps to +10). I'll bet at idle - if you turn on the lights - it goes over to showing +5 or so, as it's wired now...

I know there are a couple of wiring diagrams out there that show the wires on the ammeter at what appears to be opposite recommendations.

But, the diagrams are looking at the ammeter from different sides...

The color diagram I posted is looking at the ammeter from the passenger compartment... so the yellow wire goes to the drivers side post and the yellow/black goes to the passenger side post (when the ammeter is mounted) - at least I'm reasonably sure that's correct - anyone else confirm?.

Since it appears your wiring is not 'stock' (per the photo of the yellow wire) - be sure you trace it all the way to and thru the terminal box to make sure nothing crosses over there.

Once you get the reading issue straighted out - you may also have to set the 'third brush' in the generator to the correct output... more on that later after the readings get right...

[Pilotdave]

Theo, this is becoming more of a challenge!

1. Did you polarize the generator with the engine running or not running? Needs to be not running when you do this.

2. Since you are getting current out of the generator, it's possible that the cutout switch is not working AND that the ammeter is wired backwards. If the cutout is not opening when the engine is turned off, the battery will be drained as it tries to spin the generator.

I'll check back later as I have a meeting to attend.

[bogiediver]

Just noticed you have two 'double wires' going from the cutout screw (2 yellow fabric covered wires and 2 yellow plastic covered wires).

So be extra careful tracing where the wires go because the wire 'color' is likely not as depicted in the diagram.

[steve s]

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Originally Posted by Theo

here are some pictures for you guys

Theo,
The cutout is wired correctly. Polarize the generator by momentarily simultaneously touching a wire to the terminal on the front of it (with all the wire attached) and the terminal on the opposite side (firewall side) of the cutout. Expect a spark. Just do it!
Steve

[Charlie Stephens]

I know you said the amp meter was hooked up correctly but please bear with me. if you have everything off and turn on the headlights do you get about a 10 amp discharge?

Charlie Stephens

[Theo]

Originally Posted by bogiediver

I ain't no expert - but that really sounds like the same issue I had and it was simply the ammeter wired backwards... the behavior you are describing would be correct if it were to the 'charge' side... (i.e. idle @ +2; give it RPM and jumps to +10). I'll bet at idle - if you turn on the lights - it goes over to showing +5 or so, as it's wired now...

I know there are a couple of wiring diagrams out there that show the wires on the ammeter at what appears to be opposite recommendations.

But, the diagrams are looking at the ammeter from different sides...

The color diagram I posted is looking at the ammeter from the passenger compartment... so the yellow wire goes to the drivers side post and the yellow/black goes to the passenger side post (when the ammeter is mounted) - at least I'm reasonably sure that's correct - anyone else confirm?.

Since it appears your wiring is not 'stock' (per the photo of the yellow wire) - be sure you trace it all the way to and thru the terminal box to make sure nothing crosses over there.

Once you get the reading issue straighted out - you may also have to set the 'third brush' in the generator to the correct output... more on that later after the readings get right...

I tried turning on the headlights and I am at about a +5 charge. Would this mean the ammeter is wired backwards?

Originally Posted by Pilotdave

Theo, this is becoming more of a challenge!

1. Did you polarize the generator with the engine running or not running? Needs to be not running when you do this.

2. Since you are getting current out of the generator, it's possible that the cutout switch is not working AND that the ammeter is wired backwards. If the cutout is not opening when the engine is turned off, the battery will be drained as it tries to spin the generator.

I'll check back later as I have a meeting to attend.

The engine was not running when I did it. And the car I think does charge the battery, because If I shut it off after running, it will restart with no problems. Also using the headlights doesnt seem to affect it. The only time im having trouble with it dying is if I try to start it multiple times in a row (cold start) then after a few tries the battery is toast.

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

I know you said the amp meter was hooked up correctly but please bear with me. if you have everything off and turn on the headlights do you get about a 10 amp discharge?

Charlie Stephens

When I turn the headlights on i am getting a +5 charge

[bogiediver]

Theo-

Again - no expert, but that very strongly indicates the ammeter is wired backwards...

Since you said at idle it was showing about 2 amps discharge, turning the headlights on goes to 5 amps charge - that's a swing of about 7-8 amps; about what would be expected...

Since your wires are not the 'standard' color code - I would recommend tracing the wires to be as certain as you can, but switching the wires on the back of the ammeter should correct the issue.

[steve s]

Originally Posted by Theo

I tried turning on the headlights and I am at about a +5 charge. Would this mean the ammeter is wired backwards?

YES!!! Your ammeter is definitely wired backwards, like we suspected at the very beginnning. Just switch the two wire connections on the back of the ammeter and you may be good to go.

Steve

[bogiediver]

Here is the generator adjusting procedure for output level... in both pdf & jpg formats...

(Interesting that the diagram shows the output terminal toward the pulley side of the generator, which I thought was the older style generator...)

I just did this - it was fairly easy - just remember to do it with a non-conductive item to move the brush while the car is running... and not your fingers...

[steamgas]

THEO
did you scrape a good clean surface to bare metel for the relay too set on and get a good ground?make sure the screw for the batery wire is not too long so it will not ground out the output of the generator.

[Pilotdave]

Just returned...pretty clear from above posts that your ammeter is wired backwards. Good news is that this doesn't affect how your car runs nor will it damage anything. You can fix it at your leisure.

But it also clear that something is adversely affecting the battery's ability to start your car: "The only time im having trouble with it dying is if I try to start it multiple times in a row (cold start) then after a few tries the battery is toast."

That sounds like a different problem than I originally thought you were describing. This sounds like a battery that is able to provide 3-4 tries on a cold morning to start a cold engine; engine doesn't start, then battery runs out of poop. Is this an accurate description? If so, there's a whole list of possible causes. But let's start with clarifying the problem.

[Chris H]

See Brattons latest catalog, pg 92, for wiring diagram. One of the two wires should be the yellow/black which runs in the harness back to the driver's side of the junction box. There will also be a wire to the horn and maybe the lighting harness (?) I think. They should all be attached to the pully side of the cut out as shown in Theo's photos above. Hope this helps.

[Theo]

I switched the wires and that fixed the problem. looks like I might need to adjust the voltage a bit because Im still idling around -2. But now when I rev it up, it goes to charge and not discharge, and when I put the lights on, then it goes to discharge.

[Pilotdave]

Sounds right, Theo. Thanks for reporting results.

[Theo]

Originally Posted by Pilotdave

Sounds right, Theo. Thanks for reporting results.

No problem! Thank you soo much for all of your help everyone!

[bogiediver]

Theo-

See my post (#31 w/ attachments) above for how to set the generator output level...