Lincoln Brake Conversion issue

[mullskull]

I'm in the middle of doing a brake swap on my roadster.. swapping the 42-48 ford drums and backing plates for a pair of original 1941 (flat) lincoln drums and (shallow)backing plates.
My car has 42-48 ford spindles..
All the parts are restored, and all brake components are oem style purchased from Boos..

The drums won't seat into the backing plates.. they are about 1/4 - 3/8 out too far.. they spin freely, just not in far enough. They way they are now about an 1/8 of brake shoes aren't inside the drums.
Right now the bearing and races are the same as early ford.. (timken # 15118 bearing #15250x races).
The only thing that makes any sense is that the 1941 lincoln drums use a narrower inner wheel bearing ?
Would anyone know if this is true?

Just for the heck of it i check the fit of the ford drums..and they fit just fine on the newly set up lincoln backing plates.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by mullskull

I'm in the middle of doing a brake swap on my roadster.. swapping the 42-48 ford drums and backing plates for a pair of original 1941 (flat) lincoln drums and (shallow)backing plates.
My car has 42-48 ford spindles..
All the parts are restored, and all brake components are oem style purchased from Boos..

The drums won't seat into the backing plates.. they are about 1/4 - 3/8 out too far.. they spin freely, just not in far enough. They way they are now about an 1/8 of brake shoes aren't inside the drums.
Right now the bearing and races are the same as early ford.. (timken # 15118 bearing #15250x races).
The only thing that makes any sense is that the 1941 lincoln drums use a narrower inner wheel bearing ?
Would anyone know if this is true?

Just for the heck of it i check the fit of the ford drums..and they fit just fine on the newly set up lincoln backing plates.

[hueyhoolihan]

i'm only familiar with the REAR brake/hubs, brake shoes and backing plates on a '41 ford. and i have no idea if your problem involves a mismatch between the backing plates and brake/hub castings or possibly axle tapers and brake/hub internal tapers.

but i do know that the REAR brake/hub casting on my '41 ford is of one piece and its proximity to the backing plate, when secured, is defined by the fit between its male taper, at the end of the rear axle, and the matching female taper inside the brake/hub casting. and the bearings look to be pressed into the brake/hub casting and have little to do with positioning. but rather, ride on a uniform, machined surface of the axle INBOARD of the axle's tapered end.

i know that if the male taper is too small for the female (a common and embarrassing occurrence!) the brake/hub casting can bind on the backing plate before the securing nut is torqued to spec. and may squeal loudly. under such circumstances there is suitable conically shaped shim material available for purchase that can be fitted 'round the axle's male taper to increase its girth.

[mullskull]

Originally Posted by hueyhoolihan

i'm only familiar with the rear brake/hubs, brake shoes and backing plates on a '41 ford.

the brake/hub casting is of one piece and its proximity to the backing plate, when secured, is defined by the fit between its male taper at the end of the rear axle and the matching female taper inside the brake/hub casting. the bearings look to be pressed into the brake/hub and have little to do with positioning. they ride on a uniform, machined surface of the axle INBOARD of the axle's tapered end.

i know that if the male taper is too small for the female (a common and embarrassing occurrence!) the brake/hub casting can bind on the backing plate before the securing nut is torqued to spec. and my squeal loudly. under such circumstances there is suitable conically shaped shim material available for purchase that can be fitted 'round the axle's male taper to increase its girth.

I dont have any experience with the rear drums, only fronts, and although I appreciate your explanation, its not at all what's go8ng on with my set up..
There is no binding at all, the lip on drums just don't nest into the backing plates-

[hueyhoolihan]

Originally Posted by mullskull

I dont have any experience with the rear drums, only fronts, and although I appreciate your explanation, its not at all what's go8ng on with my set up..
There is no binding at all, the lip on drums just don't nest into the backing plates-

understood... i only mentioned it because if something sits on a taper, whether it won't go in far enough or goes in too far, the root cause would be the same.

[mullskull]

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Gottcha...

[3W Hank]

I has the Lincoln ’flat’ backing plates one year only 41 ) look as Ford 39/40 ) and had the 42/48 before and they get in deeper and they use another drum.
The 39-40 Lincoln had even a more deeper backing plate.
I know if one use a 32/34 spindle it needs as adapter to bearing anx thd Ford V8 store sell a kit.
I has the 39/40 spindles that will work on the Lincoln 41.
I has the old drum/backing plates, but it was hard to find and expensive.
Rear brakes was the same 39/48 on Lincoln.

https://36fordwoodie.weebly.com/lincolnbrakes.html

[rich b]

Lincoln spindles are different; mount the backing plate further outward in relation to the hub/drum.

[mullskull]

Originally Posted by rich b

Lincoln spindles are different; mount the backing plate further outward in relation to the hub/drum.

I was thinking the same thing ...to make a spacer..
It's either that or machine the inside of the hub so the inner race sits deeper
into the hub.

Either seem kind of crazy, as this parts combo is a very common swap out.. there is the possibility although unlikely that no one noticed or cared that the drum doesn't ride in the dust shield....

[rich b]

Thought you needed to run either a '40-'41 style Ford drum on the Lincoln hub or any Ford hub/drum to use those Lincoln backing plates.

[mullskull]

Originally Posted by rich b

Thought you needed to run either a '40-'41 style Ford drum on the Lincoln hub or any Ford hub/drum to use those Lincoln backing plates.

Could be.. since most of the guys I'm talking to have done that...

[NealinCA]

I have used Ford drums and 41 Lincoln backing plates, as well as the 41 Lincoln drums/backing plates, but the latter was on 32-34 spindles.

I did try the 41 Lincoln drums on 40 spindles with Ford backing plates and had the same spacing issue.

Tyrell Pennington @tradrod1930 on IG went through this same ordeal and ended up making spacers for the backing plates.

[mullskull]

Originally Posted by NealinCA

I have used Ford drums and 41 Lincoln backing plates, as well as the 41 Lincoln drums/backing plates, but the latter was on 32-34 spindles.

I did try the 41 Lincoln drums on 40 spindles with Ford backing plates and had the same spacing issue.

Tyrell Pennington @tradrod1930 on IG went through this same ordeal and ended up making spacers for the backing plates.

Thanks so much for this response, I value your experience and knowledge immensely! It’s refreshing to know I'm not crazy...
I'll have a look at that IG profile.

Thanks again!

[hueyhoolihan]

if a spacer does work and you fabricate one or possible find a ready-made one, i don't envy you trying to fit it, as i spent quite a bit of time simply replacing the left rear one on my old Ford and it was an experience i sincerely do NOT wish to repeat!

[mullskull]

Originally Posted by hueyhoolihan

if a spacer does work and you fabricate one or possible find a ready-made one, i don't envy you trying to fit it, as i spent quite a bit of time simply replacing the left rear one on my old Ford and it was an experience i sincerely do NOT wish to repeat!

I'll be sure to post my findings and solution..
Honestly, it's just good to know that I'm not alone in the struggle..
I as the old saying goes..
Cool ain't cheap, easy or comfortable!

[Brian]

i converted my 35 using 39-40 Lincoln 'deep dish' backing plates and encountered the very same problem using the original 35 drums...I machined up a pair of spacers, from memory .170" thick, and everything worked out great.

[mullskull]

Originally Posted by Brian

i converted my 35 using 39-40 Lincoln 'deep dish' backing plates and encountered the very same problem using the original 35 drums...I machined up a pair of spacers, from memory .170" thick, and everything worked out great.

Tha ks Brian!

[Mart]

The Lincoln drum/hub looks like it will narrow the track. Is that desirable? The long snout may be a problem for some wheel/hubcap combos. They definitely wont take wire wheels. Have you taken the trial fit far enough forward to include your wheels and hubcaps? All above based on looking at the pics, no personal experience.

[mullskull]

Originally Posted by Mart

The Lincoln drum/hub looks like it will narrow the track. Is that desirable? The long snout may be a problem for some wheel/hubcap combos. They definitely wont take wire wheels. Have you taken the trial fit far enough forward to include your wheels and hubcaps? All above based on looking at the pics, no personal experience.

Mart,
The narrower track is the desired look.. the 41 lincoln drums allow the inside of wheel to cover more of the drum.. giving a cleaner look..
I was running 42-48 drums with the hubs on the outside of the drum.. the lincolns will get me the look i'm after, and give me the ipgrade of a self energizing brake system.
Right now I don't run hub caps.. my other (50 merc wheels)wheel combo i similar set up but powder coated black.. and the stock Merc cap clear the longer snout ..

[Mart]

Glad you've covered the bases.