Steve Ryan Model "A" Meet Experience

[Bob Bidonde]

I found this year that due to the cloudy-misty-chilly weather, the attendance of sellers, buyers and Model A's on display were down. Prices of parts were up, way up! However I enjoyed visiting with friends & chatting with some of the sellers. It was nice to see Bratton's there selling what inventory they have left, but it is sad they are closing up retail operation.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde

I found this year that due to the cloudy-misty-chilly weather, the attendance of sellers, buyers and Model A's on display were down. Prices of parts were up, way up! However I enjoyed visiting with friends & chatting with some of the sellers. It was nice to see Bratton's there selling what inventory they have left, but it is sad they are closing up retail operation.

IMHO, prices need to be up!! Both for the Buyer and the Seller.

While cheap parts (-or vehicles) might seem to be good for the hobby, it is actually the opposite. Costs to attend a swap are expensive whereas the parts sales are too cheap, then there is not any value in trying to save them. I am a great example of that. I just scrapped a tad over 6,000 pounds of Model-A parts. These were good useable parts however not enough demand to warrant keeping them for resale. Adding to that, if new reproduction parts struggle to get a ROI, then there really isn't any incentive for a supplier to tool for a needed item.

Also, from my vantage point, the overall prices of Model-As has not kept up with other collector car marques. This has seemingly allowed many people to purchase a Model-A with the mindset that they are a cheap car to have. At that point, those owners typically won't/don't spend $$ for upkeep. When someone pays a lot of money for a collector vehicle, they tend to maintain their "investment" both in storage and mechanically.

[ModelA29]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Also, from my vantage point, the overall prices of Model-As has not kept up with other collector car marques. This has seemingly allowed many people to purchase a Model-A with the mindset that they are a cheap car to have. At that point, those owners typically won't/don't spend $$ for upkeep. When someone pays a lot of money for a collector vehicle, they tend to maintain their "investment" both in storage and mechanically.

Like the Model T the A was AND STILL IS the car for the common man. I think of it as the entry level of car collecting. It's always been a "I restored it myself" car not the one you took to a shop to restore.
Rarity is what drives the price of collector cars. With about 1/4 million Model As still in existence it's more a buyers than a sellers market. Prices won't go up until it's a sellers market and I don't see that happening. With the owners aging out of driving and living at a rapid rate the number of very clean cars on the market far exceeds the demand.
The rate of return is not in the restoration of a Model A. Materials and shop rates far exceed what a car would sell for when done. That same exact money could be put into a rarer car or one of a different era and while one would still probably lose money on their investment it would be less.
This is currently on Craigslist in Los Angeles. A Packard at about 30% higher buy in than an A in the same condition. If you put another 10 grand into each which would be worth more? A $22,000 Model A is about the top. A $28,000 Packard is $15-20 grand below the current market for a driver and a top flight restoration can reach 100 grand for this model but one would probably have to spend $80+ on the full restoration so the return isn't there at the 100 point level.
We can't forget, despite the goal of Paul Shinn to introduce the Model A to a whole new generation there are very few sub 60 year olds lusting after a car without automatic, air conditioning and a killer stereo that you can't drive on the freeway.

[Jeff/Illinois]

I've been around the hobby actively since I was a teenager, since 1971

In regards to value and all that and we've talked about that a LOT here on FB, I don't fuss much over that anymore. I used to.

But I've learned if something makes you happy and you enjoy it, value and cost and all don't matter a whole lot anymore. Just do it. Time is running out on all of us. At 71, I look at myself in the fourth quarter in life. It's winding down I'll be gone one of these days heck almost half of my class mates and friends have already beat me there they are already in the grave. I had a near death experience 10 years ago now, and my attitude on a LOT of things took a big turn. It was a great learning experience. It made me open my eyes and quit worrying about so much stuff. All of a sudden you realize, who cares?

And there is no hobby I ever came across that didn't start to cost some heavy coin the more you got into it.....

[ronn]

Also, from my vantage point, the overall prices of Model-As has not kept up with other collector car marques.

Brent, very surprised to hear you say that......

if anyone wants to take a bath, buy a woodie of most any make. they are nearly down by 50% or more. In the end, forget the money and buy what you will enjoy. thats what matters.

[Slotblog]

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Originally Posted by ModelA29

Rarity is what drives the price of collector cars.

I respectfully disagree.

Collector cars are a nearly pure supply and demand situation.

Low supply and high demand equals high prices. Think AC Cobras.

High supply and low demand equals low prices. Think Model A Tudor sedans.

[ModelA29]

Originally Posted by Slotblog

I respectfully disagree.

Collector cars are a nearly pure supply and demand situation.

Low supply and high demand equals high prices. Think AC Cobras.

High supply and low demand equals low prices. Think Model A Tudor sedans.

Semantics - Low supply = rarity and a sellers market
With a high supply the buyer has more choices and will dictate the price.

[jb-ob]

I too can respectfully disagree.

Tudor sedans are great at keeping small kids 'captured' plus a Tudor can't be butchered by installing a rumble seat.

[Slotblog]

Originally Posted by ModelA29

Semantics - Low supply = rarity and a sellers market

Not so IMO.

There are pleny of 'only one extant' collector cars that don't bring anything. Rarity alone does not equal value.

[alexiskai]

The activity that has the most ROI for raising the value of Model As is driving them. If the cars are visible in the community, if the owners are accessible, this creates demand.

When I was young I used to see VW Beetles out on the road a lot more than I do know. I think they’ve increasingly ended up in the garages of collectors rather than enthusiasts. They’ll probably follow a similar cycle eventually.

[Jeff/Illinois]

Originally Posted by ronn

....................
if anyone wants to take a bath, buy a woodie of most any make. they are nearly down by 50% or more.

Sad to say but that is very true. I like woodies I think they are neat! I guess maybe the prices got ran up way too high too fast a few years ago

I think the next model car we will see that in is the early Ford Broncos. No way they are worth the money they seem to be 'selling' for today

[Jeff/Illinois]

But as an afterthought--- '30-'31 Ford Model A Roadsters seem to always be in demand
Ifin' we ain't restorin' dem, da Street Rodders are gettin' 'em and choppin' dem up!

[jb-ob]

With a '30-31 Roadster or same year pickup, there is always someone behind you who wishes to buy it. The rest, not so much.

Even if you could afford a Shelby American Daytona Coupe, how many would buy one ? Super rare car but you certainly can't take it to Home Depot on Saturday morning to bring home lumber. (Might be more enjoyable in Montana ?)

[Slotblog]

Even the roadsters have dropped in value pretty substantially in the the last couple of years. All IMO due to diminishing demand from younger collectors.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...d-model-a-322/

I purchased an older AACA National First Winner at Hershey late last year for less than the car above is currently bid to, essentially half of what the car would likely have brought four or five years ago.

[jb-ob]

Reading the fine print about the Roadster currently on 'Bring a Trailer', it has fiber glass fenders. Poor comparison.

Fall Hershey always a fine time to bid to purchase a Roadster with the 'season' being over. Smart move.

[Slotblog]

The BaT car will most likely sell for more than the current bid IMO. FWIW, the seller is the son of a nationally-known Model A restorer, sadly now deceased, who restored examples of virtually every body style of Model A made, including a Town Car and a genuine Taxicab. If the seller claims it to be a decent car, you can be assured it is.

BTW, the roadster I purchased won its AACA First at Hershey several decades ago and had been stored extremely well; sorry for the confusion. I actually purchased it on Facebook Marketplace.

[Slotblog]

Here's a similar Model A Roadster currently being offered on BaT. This one doesn't have glass fenders but does have a Mitchell overdrive. Bid to $12,000 so far, with six days to go..

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...d-model-a-283/

[jb-ob]

I realize 'bling is the thing', but if it was a five wheeler and not blue......

[ronn]

slot, yes the roadsters have dropped dramatically. when I was a kid, that was all anyone wtd.


the trucks have taken their place and holding there own. nobody wtd trucks 20 yrs ago................

[Kube]

Originally Posted by ModelA29

Like the Model T the A was AND STILL IS the car for the common man. I think of it as the entry level of car collecting. It's always been a "I restored it myself" car not the one you took to a shop to restore.
Rarity is what drives the price of collector cars. With about 1/4 million Model As still in existence it's more a buyers than a sellers market. Prices won't go up until it's a sellers market and I don't see that happening. With the owners aging out of driving and living at a rapid rate the number of very clean cars on the market far exceeds the demand.
The rate of return is not in the restoration of a Model A. Materials and shop rates far exceed what a car would sell for when done. That same exact money could be put into a rarer car or one of a different era and while one would still probably lose money on their investment it would be less.
This is currently on Craigslist in Los Angeles. A Packard at about 30% higher buy in than an A in the same condition. If you put another 10 grand into each which would be worth more? A $22,000 Model A is about the top. A $28,000 Packard is $15-20 grand below the current market for a driver and a top flight restoration can reach 100 grand for this model but one would probably have to spend $80+ on the full restoration so the return isn't there at the 100 point level.
We can't forget, despite the goal of Paul Shinn to introduce the Model A to a whole new generation there are very few sub 60 year olds lusting after a car without automatic, air conditioning and a killer stereo that you can't drive on the freeway.

I agree with you for the most part. However, having fully restored seventeen pre-war Fords (V8 models) to very high standards, you are not even close at $80k.
Please keep in mind, I do nearly all the work myself. Farming it out? Figure $175k easy, very easy.