Painting a Model A

[Canton_Model_A's]

Guys/Gals here at the 'Barn'.

I am thinking about repainting my 1929 Model A back to her original colors. I don't have a paint booth, and it is kept 'offsite' in a storage location.

I have spray painted using a 'Hazard Freight' sprayer, and of course the rattle cans.

How hard is it to repaint the car, and what steps would I need to do prior to doing this.

Thanks!

Dave

[1930artdeco]

You WILL NEED a booth, if nothing else for the overspray and the VOC's. Unfortunately, garage paint jobs are frowned upon now a days. Unless you live waaay out in the boonies.

You will need a LOT OF SUPPLIES (stripper, sand paper, body sanding blocks just to name a few)

That is all I going to say as I have not painted a car before.

Mike

[Jeff/Illinois]

I've seen some cars painted, at home in the garage, with nothing but light drapes of bisqueen making up the 'booth, the floor was wetted down and they got to work.

A couple of Chevy's that show up at a local cruise night were done that way, and they look pretty darn good I'd say the trick is more in the skill of the painter plus a good paint gun...

[Will N]

I'm repainting my Roadster now. It is a LOT of work. Spraying the paint is the least of it. The stripping and metalwork and mudwork and sanding and sanding and sanding that comes before the spraying is where all the work is. I now understand why a quality paint job runs around $20,000. I bought an inflatable paint booth to set up on my driveway to do the painting. Works pretty well.

[Phil Brown]

We've moved away from wetting down the floor when painting. It seems that most all of the newer paint type's really do not like the extra moisture in the air as the water evaporates. Can make the paint kinda cloudy looking on sunny days
Scrub the floor down with some soap and water, wet mop it out, next day one more wet mop, when dry start painting

[ModelA29]

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I'm always curious how people can find/know the "original" color of their A. I can understand with one of the few never restored ones. After 90 years some have been repainted many times and were probably disassembled and sand blasted before new paint - of the owners choice. With no factory records it's guess work.
Use old school paint - not the new water based. That takes too much environmental control to get a decent job. Here in CA since I'm not a shop (and paint in my garage) I can use whatever type paint I want. Sometimes it necessary to go to a free state like Nevada to pick up supplies. Most of the time I can get them shipped via Ebay.

[L-head]

Better not let Gavin hear that....................

[Big hammer]

60 years ago I saw a truck that the guy painted outside with a brush ! You couldn’t see brush strokes and it looked very good driving down the road !

[Gene F]

About 25 years ago I was at a car meet, and there was a gentleman there that had painted his A himself. Turns out he painted it in his driveway. I would have never known, if he had not told me.

[wrndln]

If you use automotive paint, you don't need a paint booth. Assuming there is nothing close where you paint that you can get overspray on it, painting outside on a definitely NO rain day, the paint job will be fine. If you colorsand the paint, any small insect or other minor debris will sand out just fine. Colorsanding removes the orange peel and makes the paint as smooth as a babies butt. I have painted 2 model A's behind my shop and they turned out quite well.
Rusty Nelson

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Some interesting comments above. Maybe I can offer some observations/thoughts from the 'Cheap Seats'.

Dave, to answer some of your questions first, -you asked how hard is it to paint the car. Maybe the quick response back would be 'How hard is it to catch a fish?' For some, its as simple as throwing a bare fishing hook into a pool of water. For me, its a struggle!

As for what is involved, ...what are your expectations? Is the goal to make something that lasts for decades and can win at a small car show? Is it to look good from 20' away and just good enough to last a few years?? I often tell hobbyists that a quality paint job is 1/3rd of a full restoration. That goes for Time required, -and for costs. To do the job correctly where it will last generally requires the present paint & substrates to be removed to bare metal. To do a proper job of that requires removing the Body from the Chassis, removing the interior, the glass, and the top material at the minimum. Removing the tank, the windshield, doors, etc. allows for better quality.

From my vantage point, a Spray Booth is probably NOT as essential as being able to control the paint during the application process. "Control" in this scenario means keeping it out of your lungs, away from your eyes, and managing where the paint is going. As mentioned by Jeff, a plastic draped garage can work well because the plastic sheeting can generally create static electricity which tends to attract overspray. If you are going to spray the paint, you need a method of removing overspray so that you can see what you are doing, and keep that paint from falling onto the wet freshly-painted surface. Many painters have been creative by building evacuation fan banks using 20" box fans to move the air. To this day, we still wet the floor of our Spray Booth to control overspray dust. Also, it keeps the floor from getting sticky which makes it difficult to walk around, and the water keeps from the paint sticking to the Booth floor.

It is worth a mention that technology within the paint industry changes very frequently where what someone may have been familiar with 5 years ago has totally changed. A great example of this is the application of Primers. We now roll our Primers onto the surface about 95% of the time. This is done to save costs of wasted product, and as a labor savings time where cleaning a Booth, and moving a vehicle in & out of a Booth requires non-productive time. A great example of this might be this hypothetical scenario where you have blocksanded the entire R/R Quarter panel, so instead of waiting to finish sanding other areas of the Body before pushing it into the Booth, the tech just mixes only the amount necessary to apply 3 additional coats onto that R Quarter, and rolls the first layer on with a 4"foam roller. Then the tech begins working on the L/R Qtr. while the first coat partially dries. Then in 10-15 minutes, the tech applies a 2nd coat of primer to the R Qtr. and allows it to dry while he returns to the L Qtr. and begins sanding again. Generally we apply three medium coatings of high-build primer which when it is sprayed will take in excess of 60 minutes by the time flash time, prepping the Booth, mixing the paints, and cleaning the gun is involved. During the spraying process while you are waiting on the drying, about all that can be done from a productivity standpoint is cleaning the work area. By rolling the primer, the productivity level generally stays above 90% because the tech can continue sanding in other areas while the primer is drying. Another topic of discussion regarding productivity is cheap production paper costs more. While we rarely use sandpaper any longer, buying a top-quality (i.e.: expensive) sandpaper will stay sharper longer which makes your efforts more productive (i.e.: takes less time)

With regard to 'how do people know the "original" color of their A', I can only speak to what we have found, but generally speaking, the Model-As that were restore are either fairly unmolested original cars, -or poorly restored Model-As that were quasi-restored several decades ago. In those situations, most of the 60s & 70s Model-A restorations were actually a Repair & Repaint job where the vehicle was rarely disassembled. In other words, the Tank remained inside the car during the repaint but upon disassembly now, we see traces of original paint. The same applies with the vehicles that were never restored. Another way is many people have either the original Title or an old Title that often has the color listed on it. While it may not state the actual Ford color, it will say Blue or Green or Brown or ?? that we can get a clue from. That doesn't always apply, but sometimes it does. Outside of that, if there are not any distinguishable clues, then it is the Owner's word against someone else's. I will also say that Ford manufactured their own paints until 1936 until Ditzler (PPG) got the contract. Since that time, PPG has been vigilant in crossing the original samples into their latest paint lines. Both Clubs have also worked closely where the color chips in the Paint & Refinish book are very, very close. At that point, the paint chip in the Paint & Refinish book is the benchmark as to whether a color is authentic or not.

[Bill's Auto Works]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Some interesting comments above. Maybe I can offer some observations/thoughts from the 'Cheap Seats'.
.

Hi Brent,

As usual when it comes to this kind of stuff...I agree with you. I also like your diplomatic use of the word "Interesting"

I also will continue to wet my paint room floor & walls as urethane clear loves it. Laying glass means much less work when you cut & buff. A good exhaust fan is a big key to a great paint job, you definitely don't want any over spray landing on the car. I bought mine from Grainger many years ago & it will suck my office door closed if I forget to close it.

To the O.P., The better you want it to be, the harder it is! My suggestion to you would be watch for a sale at Harbor Freight & buy a Black Widow gun for $129.00 on sale. I have a couple of $4-$500 guns & the Black Widow comes really close to their results. Clean your garage, hang plastic, stick a box fan under the bay door & blast away. Then watch a YouTube video on how to wet sand & buff a few days later. These days basecoat/clearcoat is very forgiving, but prepping the body & cleanliness is absolutely the most important part of any paint job.

God Bless
Bill
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...closed.614419/

[1crosscut]

What I do for a home spray booth is go dumpster diving at a new home construction site and get one or two of the long cardboard boxes that vinyl siding comes in. Take the boxes and tape them together end to end. Tape a little bigger square cardboard box to one end of those boxes and cut a round hole in the side of that box and tape it so the hole is affixed to the side of a squirrel cage fan out of an old furnace. Then cut several smaller holes in the siding boxes along the other end. The squirrel cage fan will be outside of the spray booth and the other end of the siding boxes with the holes will be inside the spray booth.
This will pull the paint fumes and mist in through the siding boxes and out the squirrel cage fan.
The motors for these fans are outside of the fan cage so fumes won’t pass over the electric motor reducing the chance of a fire or things going boom.

For the spray booth I use painters plastic on the floor and draped from the ceiling forming the four walls.
The plastic is so light that painters tape usually will hold it in place. My shop has exposed rafters so I tack it in place with staples to hang it.
With the open rafters it acts more like a down draft spray booth.
Works well for me.

[ModelA29]

Originally Posted by L-head

Better not let Gavin hear that....................

The laws cover people who are in business. Private parties can do what they want. I generally get stuff from a friend who's a body shop rep for a paint distributor. Rather than bother him for common supplies I'll get then off Ebay or when were in NV at friends.
I prep the car in the garage the night before. I get up early and wet down the driveway. Roll the car out and paint it. Then back into the garage until it dries. I tried hanging plastic in the garage and it was a PIA in addition to the lighting is terrible.

[nkaminar]

Modern paint is very toxic. It can enter your body through your eyes. I use the full face and head cover with a filter pack that has a small blower. Plus a full paint suit and gloves. I am fortunate to live in a rural area where I can paint outside. It helps to have a quality spray gun, the low pressure, high volume kind. The driveway is still a little wet from when I sprayed it with the hose before painting. Bright sun helps to quickly cure the paint.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

I want to add one or two other suggestions for someone who is a Rookie. Use single stage 2K products because they are more forgiving when colorsanding or repairing. Second, build a small 8'x8' frame out of 2x4 lumber and attach clear plastic. Connect fans and filers for crossflow ventilation. Only paint one item and one color at a time. Paint one front Door and focus on just that. Let it dry fully & completely before removing it from your temporary Booth, Then, prep & paint the other Door. Once that one has completely dried, scuff, prep, & paint the secondary color on that Door. Next paint the exterior portion of the Firewall, and both Cowl panels. Do as before and allow it to dry completely. Mask the painted portions to protect from the next phase. Then paint one Quarter panel and once it has dried and cured, then paint the next one. Do it in sections where you have the ability to focus on quality and technique.

If that seems overwhelming, then get a part-time job at McDonalds to subsidize paying a professional painter to do the actual spraying of the colors. You do the prep and let them just spray it.

[Will N]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

Modern paint is very toxic. It can enter your body through your eyes. I use the full face and head cover with a filter pack that has a small blower. Plus a full paint suit and gloves. I am fortunate to live in a rural area where I can paint outside. It helps to have a quality spray gun, the low pressure, high volume kind. The driveway is still a little wet from when I sprayed it with the hose before painting. Bright sun helps to quickly cure the paint.

And by Modern, you mean urethane paints that contain isocyanates . Enamels (and lacquers believe it or not) are still available that don't require a hazmat suit to apply.

[nkaminar]

Yes, urethane paints. But even enamels are not good for you. The urethane paints are two part and are mixed together just prior to application. They cure (dry) hard and are impervious to gasoline and even acetone. Easily wet sanded and polished for a professional looking job.

If you have the car apart and can bring the pieces to a professional painter, ready to paint the finish coat, then it can be a reasonable cost.

[JRrev]

While old enamels don't absolutely require hardeners (isocyanates) there are other issues. If you don't use a hardener in enamel it usually is not able to be sanded (think removing a run). Also, I learned the hard way that it is difficult to spray another coat. IN my one case spraying acrylic enamel without hardener, the second coat acted like a paint stripper wrinkling the first coat. Because of isocyanates I bought a fresh air supply system with full mask so no skin is exposed. Back in the day I would look at my paint work after it was dry and mist was long gone. Found out with using hardeners isocyanates linger for hours.

So many times I saw TV programs where painters in professional businesses only used a respirator. I attended a paint seminar and asked why painters often only use a respirator so wouldn't the shop be liable? The answer surprised me. Because most of them have worked for multiple shops, it would be difficult to blame the last one!

I sold most of my body and paint equipment and job-out anything more than a small part to be painted.

[al's28/33]

good luck and don't run out steam half-way thru .... share your progress here so we can keep encouraging you. Hopefully you won't have too many left over parts when the car is reassembled.