New Battery, No Power/Lights/Starter

[FFOG]

Went to start car and battery barely turned over the engine. Charged battery, had lights and horn but no starting (nothing. Not even an attempt to start. Dead as a door nail. Bought a new battery, connected the same way. 6 volt positive ground. No lights, no horn, no turning over. The battery is grounded to the frame. Battery test to 6.5 volts. Amp meter isn’t registering anything. I’m stumped.

[Gogo]

Using a volt meter test for power at the negative battery cable termination point. If you have power there the n test the internal copper connection points under the starter contactor cover. When pushing on the start pedal of an A it is just a copper on copper contact to energize the starter. If that area turns out to be fine then the next area to check are the starter motor brushes and armature.

[German guy]

I had a similar situation and it was an eroded battery to started pole connection. I had put new cables in but clearly did a crappy job of attaching the connector to the cable..leaving only a few copper wires doing all the work until they eroded enough to cause everything electrical to misbehave.

[nkaminar]

FFog, Run a parallel ground from the battery directly to the engine. A bolt on the transmission is a handy place to run the second ground. When you connect the ground cable, scrap off any paint or rust under the bolt.

All the terminals at the battery should be shinny bright. The auto parts stores sell a tool for this but I just use my pocket knife.

I have bought new 6 volt batteries that were bad off the shelf. The 6 volt batteries do not get turned over as much as the 12 volt batteries, so they can be too old when you buy them.

If you do not have lights and horn then it is not likely a bad starter or starter switch. But check to see if you have a fuse at the starter switch. They can have bad connections where it holds onto the fuse.

Your multimeter, set to the voltage setting, is your friend. Use the standard testing techniques to check all the connections from one end of the electrical chain to the other, including grounds.

[FFOG]

Thank You! I'll give that a try tonight.

[FFOG]

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Originally Posted by nkaminar

FFog, Run a parallel ground from the battery directly to the engine. A bolt on the transmission is a handy place to run the second ground. When you connect the ground cable, scrap off any paint or rust under the bolt.

All the terminals at the battery should be shinny bright. The auto parts stores sell a tool for this but I just use my pocket knife.

I have bought new 6 volt batteries that were bad off the shelf. The 6 volt batteries do not get turned over as much as the 12 volt batteries, so they can be too old when you buy them.

If you do not have lights and horn then it is not likely a bad starter or starter switch. But check to see if you have a fuse at the starter switch. They can have bad connections where it holds onto the fuse.

Your multimeter, set to the voltage setting, is your friend. Use the standard testing techniques to check all the connections from one end of the electrical chain to the other, including grounds.

nkaminar - Thanks for you feedback!

I should have noted earlier that this car is new to me, so I am getting to know it for the first time.

I do have the braided cable from the + terminal to the chassis and a secondary cable from the + terminal running to the starter. I assume this is a secondary ground?

There are a copper nut and washer that are used to attach the negative cable to the starter switch. I took them off without paying attention. Do they go on in a specific order?

I did check the fuse next to the starter switch several times by removing and rotating. I kept hoping it was going to be that easy…It looks like I am going to have to improve my multi-meter knowledge/skills for this one.

[CT Jack]

The ground cable to the starter mounting bolt is a good idea. Measure the voltage at the output side of the fuse block. If after you clean your cables as Neil suggests you should read 6volts and be able to turn on the lights. If that works but starter doesn't respond your problem is now with either the switch on top of the motor or the starter motor itself.

[nkaminar]

That is a real good place for the second ground.

On my car I just have the nut at the starter switch. The washer should go on top of the cable then the nut.

To start with, measure the voltage drop at each connection while someone steps on the starter switch. Start at the battery, which you have already done. Keep your charger on the battery but only on a low setting, or use a battery maintainer. For instance, measure the negative side of the battery against the terminal on the starter switch. They should be the same within a fraction of a volt. Then measure the positive terminal of the battery against a good ground point on the engine. They should also be the same within a fraction of a volt.

[Big hammer]

Originally Posted by FFOG

Went to start car and battery barely turned over the engine. Charged battery, had lights and horn but no starting (nothing. Not even an attempt to start. Dead as a door nail. Bought a new battery, connected the same way. 6 volt positive ground. No lights, no horn, no turning over. The battery is grounded to the frame. Battery test to 6.5 volts. Amp meter isn’t registering anything. I’m stumped.

As for no cranking after trying and after charging battery, it’s possible that the starter is still engaged to the flywheel ! A starter engaged in to the flywheel will not turn your engine over ! Check threads or google for fixes for stuck starter, there are many ways to unstick stuck starters

[Oldgearz]

I guess you checked the fuse.

[Sport King Eric]

Seems like a ground issue the others have covered that very well, to add something a shot of contact cleaner on the starter brushes and armature might not hurt..

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by FFOG

Bought a new battery, connected the same way. 6 volt positive ground. No lights, no horn, no turning over. The battery is grounded to the frame. Battery test to 6.5 volts. Amp meter isn’t registering anything. I’m stumped.

Sounds like a Disconnect switch is turned off (if the car has one installed).

[FFOG]

Thank you all for your feedback! Here is where I am at.

I began my night by cleaning all of the connections related to the battery. I even took apart the braided ground strap and used my Dremel to clean the frame and other surfaces. Next, I took apart the starter switch on the starter to inspect and cleaned all of those surfaces and connections. I then went to do the voltage testing. I got 6 plus volts at the battery, starter, the terminal box, coil and finally the points. I also tested the fuse and put the car in 3rd gear and rocked it a bit just in case the starter was stuck. Still no lights, horn or starting.

I decided to clean up and call it a night. After a bit, curiosity got the best of me, so I decided to grab my meter and check the voltage at the starter one more time for fun… I got 0.00 (nothing), so fiddled around trying to get a reading and still nothing, so I went and checked battery, and got 6.3 volts. I then decided to take the negative cable off of the starter switch to test. I had to fuss with it but could get 6 volts if I held the cable and meter just right. All that said, I have bought a new positive battery cable and will install it tonight and see what happens. It is so strange that it showed 6 volts after first cleaning and installing but an hour later 0.00 volts.

UPDATE: I typed all of the above last night while it was fresh in my mind. I just realized that I put a piece of card stock in the points to open them up to get my points reading and never removed it. I had 6 volts at the starter before I did that, but not after. I don’t think that would cause a 0.00 volt reading at the starter but correct me if I am wrong. I’m still going to change the negative cable as it looks rough, and then see what happens

I’m still puzzled my the lack of lights and horn, but I guess a than perfect positive cable could be the problem.

Aside from not solving the problem, it was a great night from a learning standpoint. I learned so much about my car!

Thanks, and I will keep you posted on my journey!

[nkaminar]

You are measuring from the cable to ground. The ground completes the path. So it could be the positive cable to ground or, more likely the rough negative cable to the starter switch. There is something that is hanging on by a tread and wiggling it breaks the thread.

[ModelA29]

I had a battery cable one time that had corroded where the wire went into the clamp. It would read ok with a meter but it was too corroded for any load.

[Ayers1]

Sounds like you are on the right track with the battery to starter cable. Let us know how it goes after a new one! Be sure to get one from an A parts supplier. The ones from a local parts store aren't big enough to handle the current for 6 volts.

[FFOG]

UPDATE: Installed the new cable and I have lights and a horn again but no start. I have 6 plus volts everywhere I should. The starter and starter switch are hot to the touch after I attempt to start but not a sound from the starter. I have rocked the car in 3rd gear like many have suggested to break it the starter free if it is bound up. Can starters stop working and get hot without making a sound?

[Ayers1]

Yep, it sounds like it's in the starter. You will need to pull it off and check it out.

[nkaminar]

There are two things that can be wrong. First, the starter can be bad. Second the starter Bendix can be stuck.

Pull the starter and run it on your bench. Use the battery, one side to ground and one side to the button on top of the starter. If it works fine then the problem was that the Bendix was stuck and then just put the starter back. If the starter does not spin up or spins up slowly then the brushes may need to be replaced. The commutator should be shinny bright. The starter could also have a bad armature.

A third possibility is a bad starter switch. The part that contacts the button on the starter should be shinny bright.

[FFOG]

When I pulled the negative cable I found a surprise. I think it is safe to say that this was the source of the electrical problem I was having. I have owned the car for 4 days. It looks like that has been there for quite sometime! It was on the underneath side of the cable pressing against the battery.

Cable.jpg