Waking up a Sleeping Beauty, 1934 5 window

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by Scott/Mn

Another cigar lighter photograph, this one from our unrestored '34. When I shine a light behind it, the lens is definitely amber in color.

[The Art Doctor]

Well I took her for a 30 minute drive tooling around the neighborhood. In a few spots I got a bit spirited and cranked her up to 30mph and things got a bit squirley. I have never owned an car with bias plys and heard they wander, and boy does she wander but it seems deeper than that. On the first drive it was all smiles and wonder and concern about braking and not much attention was paid to handling other than noting the very heavy steering. This drive I really was getting to know the car. If I take my hands off the wheel at speed she goes quick right. Its like the free play in the wheel is there to the right and not in the middle where it feels stiffer. It looks like the Pittman arm is straight down with the opposite end of the drag link centered over the axle and the wheels straight forward. I think all that is how its supposed to be and there is no adjustment. Is it possible the Pittman arm is off a spline, or are they keyed to be idiot proof?


The only thing I could adjust is the tie rod. I did a rough measurement after the initial drive and it came up 1/4" toe out using the tread for reference. I roughly set it to 3/16" toe in for the 30 minute drive where it seemed to get much worse. Last night marked an accurate measuring line on tape by spinning the wheel against a sharpie. I set to an accurate 1/8" toe. I hope to take it for a spin today and see if its any better. I will report back.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by The Art Doctor

Well I took her for a 30 minute drive tooling around the neighborhood. In a few spots I got a bit spirited and cranked her up to 30mph and things got a bit squirley. I have never owned an car with bias plys and heard they wander, and boy does she wander but it seems deeper than that. On the first drive it was all smiles and wonder and concern about braking and not much attention was paid to handling other than noting the very heavy steering. This drive I really was getting to know the car. If I take my hands off the wheel at speed she goes quick right. Its like the free play in the wheel is there to the right and not in the middle where it feels stiffer. It looks like the Pittman arm is straight down with the opposite end of the drag link centered over the axle and the wheels straight forward. I think all that is how its supposed to be and there is no adjustment. Is it possible the Pittman arm is off a spline, or are they keyed to be idiot proof?


The only thing I could adjust is the tie rod. I did a rough measurement after the initial drive and it came up 1/4" toe out using the tread for reference. I roughly set it to 3/16" toe in for the 30 minute drive where it seemed to get much worse. Last night marked an accurate measuring line on tape by spinning the wheel against a sharpie. I set to an accurate 1/8" toe. I hope to take it for a spin today and see if its any better. I will report back.

[The Art Doctor]

OK, last nights drive report. The wandering is better, but you better keep both hands on the wheel. With the car driving straight the wheel is cocked to the right about 4 inches. The area of play in the middle of the steering box between turning left and turning right where one would expect to be going straight is off. When going straight I am in the left turn part of the box and the box is fighting to go back to the middle and pulls the car to the right. Its exhausting driving it and fighting the box to keep the car going straight. My shoulders and arms are worn out from another 30 minute drive. I am going to explore the Pittman arm alignment thought train unless any other ideas come my way. That should get the wheel at least centered but I am not sure how that will affect where the middle of the box travel will end up in relation to the front wheels going forward. I'm scratching the old noggin over this.


I did fill her up all the way. First gas stop in a very long time. Gas gauge reads off the chart when full. I guess the upper stop is well beyond the visible scale. I did reset the trip odometer for the first time too. I did not realize that you literally have to roll it through every number to get it back to 000, it does go in both directions.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by The Art Doctor

OK, last nights drive report. The wandering is better, but you better keep both hands on the wheel. With the car driving straight the wheel is cocked to the right about 4 inches. The area of play in the middle of the steering box between turning left and turning right where one would expect to be going straight is off. When going straight I am in the left turn part of the box and the box is fighting to go back to the middle and pulls the car to the right. Its exhausting driving it and fighting the box to keep the car going straight. My shoulders and arms are worn out from another 30 minute drive. I am going to explore the Pittman arm alignment thought train unless any other ideas come my way. That should get the wheel at least centered but I am not sure how that will affect where the middle of the box travel will end up in relation to the front wheels going forward. I'm scratching the old noggin over this.


I did fill her up all the way. First gas stop in a very long time. Gas gauge reads off the chart when full. I guess the upper stop is well beyond the visible scale. I did reset the trip odometer for the first time too. I did not realize that you literally have to roll it through every number to get it back to 000, it does go in both directions.

Lose the whitewalls...

[Als48]

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I'm thinking that something other than the steering box is causing the car to pull to the right. Either a right front or rear brake dragging would do that. The front axle could be mis-aligned with the frame or some such thing, as well. Do you know anyone who could check the alignment for squareness? A simple check could be done by measuring wheelbase from the front to rear axles on each side and comparing.

Al H

[The Art Doctor]

Al, I had thought of possibly a bent wishbone or axle but visually they look undamaged. A few minutes spent with a tape measure might help determine if there is anything amiss. I will give that a try. The brakes are set pretty good at this point and it stops straight now, but didn't at first. In my mind the not centered steering wheel is a symptom and with a fixed length draglink the only cure is to remove and re-clock the Pitman arm. Possibly the off steering wheel and pulling are two separate issues needing each an individual fix. There is a heavy truck place that does straighten and align beam axles not far from me if it comes down to that.

[alchemy]

The pitman arm should have four wider splines which key into four wider notches of the sector. As Henry designed it, you can’t mess it up. But, it is possible to file the center out of each wide spline and then it is infinitely adjustable (to a certain degree). Hot rod stuff.

[Bored&Stroked]

As Alchemy noted, the pitman arm is indexed as it came from the factory. I'd pull the drag link and center the steering box (you should look up the documents on how to adjust it). Once it is correctly adjusted and centered, then see where the pitman arm's location is.

Normally it should be clocked a little bit backwards of straight down - closer to 5 o'clock than 6 o'clock. Regardless, when it is in this position, the drag link should result in the front wheels being centered . . . if everything is stock on the front-end.

Now, somebody could have modified or changed out the drag link or even the spindles, I have no way of knowing that without looking at the suspension.

[The Art Doctor]

Thanks guys for the information. I have the box adjusting instructions just need some time in the garage, I have been sick all week as something is going around. I have seen that these coupes were advertised directly to women. I cannot imagine a 110lbs 1930's gal wheeling this thing around as it sits, must be something amiss or those girls were stronger than they look in the old movies. I will take lots of pics and hopefully we can work this out.

[Woogeroo]

Congrats on the first drive Art Doctor.



I hope you get the steering worked out.

[Zax40]

Originally Posted by The Art Doctor

Thanks guys for the information. I have the box adjusting instructions just need some time in the garage, I have been sick all week as something is going around. I have seen that these coupes were advertised directly to women. I cannot imagine a 110lbs 1930's gal wheeling this thing around as it sits, must be something amiss or those girls were stronger than they look in the old movies. I will take lots of pics and hopefully we can work this out.

Have you checked the grease level in the steering box? When I first got my 55 pickup it was really hard to steer. When I pulled the fill plug on the box and shined it a light it looked pretty dry. I added quite a bit of corn head grease and it made a major difference. Tire air pressure is also important.

[The Art Doctor]

Truth is I have not looked to see if it is full or not. There is a drip trail of fluid running down the frame rail and the splash pan on that side is oily. It does not mark its spot on the garage floor which may be a bad thing. It is totally possible it is completely empty.

[The Art Doctor]

Well curiosity got the better of me tonight as I have begun to feel a bit better. I pulled the fill cap off the steering box and it did look empty at first. I quickly realized that they had used grease to fill it originally. I dug around with wires, pipe cleaners and assorted sticks and pulled out all I could from deeper around the worm which itself was essentially clean. I know there is still some deep down but I cant get to it from the fill hole. Its still soft and tacky, not hard at all, but very thick. Removing and dismantling the box to clean it out is not on my fun things to do list. Options I'm considering:#1 Filling the box with parts washing solvent and turning steering wheel back and forth a whole bunch to attempt to make a slurry that I can hopefully suck out with a long flexible plastic pipette and refill with cornhead grease if i get it all out or 500w if I don't, #2 Be lazy and stay clean and just fill it up with 500wt oil and drive it for a while hoping for it to slowly mix the two into a heavyweight mixture that will work OK or be replaced with cornhead at a later date, or ????? Any opinions?


Photos, empty looking box, grease collected (one of three paper towels I used), tools used to get out grease

[Zax40]

If it were me I would get out all the old I can and then fill it with corn head grease. I usually jack up the front so the tires are off the ground. After the first top off of corn head I slowly turn the wheel stop to stop. Then I top off again. Repeat until turning the wheel does not drop the level below the fill hole

Maybe a small squeeze bottle with a rubber hose attached could be used to suck more of the old out

[Terry,OH]

Do not use 500W that is not for our cars. Look at the owners manual lube chart and the fill cap.

[The Art Doctor]

I spent last night digging out the rest of the brown grease. I picked the dirty job and used clean parts washer solvent. I jacked up the front wheels and rotated the steering wheel many times to mix the two. It didn't take long and using long skinny pipette I was able to suck out a thick brown goo. I just did it once, no guarantees I got all the old grease but my obsessive self is satisfied. I left the fill lid off and will heat the box today to drive off any remaining solvent as it has a 145*F flash point and will not readily evolve at room temperature before filling it back up. With nearly no lubricant present the box is generally stiff to move and I can feel an area of extra tightness in the mesh on a right turn about 3/4 of the way to full lock, a left turn is fine. I believe this indicates that an eccentric rivet adjustment is required. I will go through the whole box setting procedure to make sure it is correct once I figure out where in the mess of a garage I put that tube of corn head grease I bought 3 years ago for a different steering box...

[The Art Doctor]

Trying to not let any moss grow on this project. I found the corn head grease. That is some seriously loose grease, should work great. I filled the box using a plastic syringe while rotating the steering wheel and occasionally poking with a wire to settle air bubbles until it was filled.


The box still needs adjustment but I wanted to go backward and check some measurements and settings. I started with a tape on the frame and axle and while its not new BMW tolerance it was all within range of reasonably square. Next I measured caster and came up with 8.9* on the left front and 9.4* on the right front. 9* is the spec max with a 4.5* minimum and they are to be within 0.5* of each other. So its a little over spec on RF but not terrible as they are close to each other. For camber the left front was 2* while the right front was 1.2* on a spec of 2* max and 0.25* min with a variance of 0.25* side to side. So again the right front is out of spec. The left front is within the spec, right must have hit a pot hole or something along the way. The camber being off would explain some of the driving characteristics as the two wheels are not turning the same? Anyone have real experience in what these numbers really mean? I can live with it till spring but I am guessing that getting it straightened out will be a good improvement.


I also measured for the steering wheel centering issue. I got the front wheels perfectly aligned straight ahead measured from rim to frame rivet. The steering wheel is definitely off. Pictures below are with the front wheels straight. The pitman arm is essentially straight down while the steering arm ball is slightly forward of the axle centerline and steering wheel is cocked to the right. With the front wheels where they are to get the steering wheel where it needs to be the pitman arm will have move forward just a smidge. Thus the drag link is a little too long if the steering arm stays where it is now to have the steering wheel centered. I will pull the drag link off tomorrow without moving the front wheels and see where things align with the thinking in my head. I'm wondering if the drag link ends may be assembled wrong, missing something or too tightly set making it overall the wrong length. I really do not want to heat and bend the steering arm. I could, I have the technology but getting it dead on would be hard. There is not an adjustable drag link out there is there? Model A maybe? How about cutting down and re-threading one end of a 32-34(and up?) tie rod to get adjustable ends?


Pics, corn head grease in syringe, grease in box, steering wheel when tires straight, pitman arm tires straight, draglink over axle.

[alchemy]

Your caster is really around 9?!! That’s a lot. It should go straight down the road like a dragster.

[The Art Doctor]

Yes 9* at the axle ends. All through the center from wishbone perch pin to wishbone perch pin where it does not matter it was at 5.4* but outside the wishbone to the kingpin was 8.9 and 9.4. Maybe somebody had it aligned bent at some point? Could that much caster then contribute to the reason it does not like to turn if its set to go straight? I did take it for its first 55mph ripper the other day and it was not terrible but still if I took my hands off the wheel it wanted to pull right. I was more worried about listening to the motor rev (more like trying to hear it clearly over the holes in the exhaust), other cars that kept pulling up next to me to take pictures and getting to where I was getting than paying attention to how it was driving.