Water in oil rebuilt Model B engine.

[headonz]

Engine started well on 6v after engine rebuild with Snyder 6:1-1 HP head and insert bearing conversion.
Ran and driven 20min then sat idol 15min.Looked ,sounded, OK.


Switched off .Checked oil level and could see milky oil .Could hear something trickling into sump.


Drained sump .Lots of water then oil.
Checked torque on head bolts and could get 1/2 to full turn at 55lbs.


Removed head.Snyder B head gasket looked OK.No water in cylinders or combustion chambers.No visible gasket leek or damage.


What should be my next step ??

[ModelA29]

Originally Posted by headonz

Checked torque on head bolts and could get 1/2 to full turn at 55lbs.

What should be my next step ??

Head was loose? But a horror story would have a cracked block. I'd use the old gasket (rather than wasting a new one if there is a crack) and a good dose of copper coat. Torque to specs wait a couple hours torque again. Start and run 15 minutes - retorque then retorque it the next morning.

[Benson]

Since there is water / coolant in oil in dipper tray and sump, there will also be oil and water in valve chamber. Which means oil and water in main bearing and camshaft bearing feed holes oil galley.

Maybe an engine builder can comment if this oil /coolant needs to be removed from oil galley and from oil feed passages and how to remove it?

Drop crank or run kerosene in crankcase to purge water/coolant?

[johnneilson]

Take valve chamber cover off and look for leaks
It sounds like a large leak so just pouring water into block with head off should show

Let us know what you find

J

[quickchange]

He did use the silicon head gasket ,?????? now putting kevlar one copper coated & torquing too 60 lb . here is praying ,

[headonz]

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Looked at oil from sump again ,maybe not as much water as first thought.Trickling sound could have been oil from side valve gallery draining back into dipper tray.Maybe.


Contaminated oil in dipper tray is a problem ,may have to drop sump then fill up water jacket in block to see if any big leak visible .


Kerosene flush could be way to go.Then reuse an old gasket to test again ,sounds good.


Thanks for many good suggestions , going to sleep on it and try again tomorrow.

[Benson]

Here is what Vince Falter has found with leaking head gaskets of certain types and whether used with A or B block.

Head gasket Guide: https://www.fordgarage.com/pages/ABc...asketguide.htm

Note red areas of the two large tables,

1. one TABLE for A block / Head combinations,

2. one TABLE for B BLOCK / HEAD COMBINATIONS

[Jim Brierley]

Check head gasket fit to head and block. The B block has small holes that the gasket may not be covering? These holes may need to be plugged [U]flush with the top surface of the head[U] in order to support the gasket. Most performance heads use an A gasket, check with Snyder.

[headonz]

Not good .Filled block with water after an hour noticed water level going down.
Removed side cover ,cleaned out milky oil the noticed number 4 inlet valve spring dripping water.
Shone touch up to where spring contacts block and can see drips of water forming between block and spring area.
Cracked block. So much for crack testing.
Dont know what to do from here.

[J Franklin]

Bars Leak!

[CWPASADENA]

I would use some block sealer. Something made for cracked blocks.

Follow the instructions and give it a try. If it works, it may give you many years of good service.

My experience,

Chris W.

[mass A man]

Until you find a better block, you could use "K-Seal", a small container of stop leak for a leak like yours. Two years ago at a car meet, a friend had a bad leak in his '62 caddy radiator. I mean really bad, a green river from his car, running about 10 feet down to a drain. He wouldn't of made it home. We stopped at a Napa for a "quick fix", hopefully...
Well, he got home and 2 years later I bumped into him and asked about his radiator and he said he never changed it! and was still running with the K-Seal in it, no leaks! I yelled at him anyway.

[J and M Machine]

Most likely block is cracked in lifter gallery, that you could hear it trickle into the sump.
A magnaflux or pressure test would of pointed this out during rebuild.

This can be repaired through metal stitching as we have in the example shown.

[Bob Bidonde]

It is very important that a stop hole is drilled on the ends of the crack to stop its growth. Stitching the crack does this inherently. I suggest that you have a professional engine shop stitch the crack.

[nkaminar]

The block sealer is a good temporary fix. Repairing the crack with stitching or other method like welding is a good choice for a more permanent fix. While you are running your car around you can be saving up for a Burtz engine.

[wuga]

I had a head gasket blow out from what I believe was a bad torque. This was suggested: torque head 35,45,55. Run engine to about 180-200 dry. Use lazer gun to determine heat. Retorque head to 55. In my case, torque wrench turned another 1/4-1/3 turn back to 55. Add coolant and run engine for a short trip and retorque. No discernable loss in torque this time. Feel confident this time head is proper. I know this doesn't fix the crack, but since torquing the head came up, I thought I would add my 2 cents.
Warren

[nkaminar]

Warren, That is an interesting comment. Most instructions say to torque cold. Torquing when warm could put more stress in the studs than torquing cold. It would be interesting to see how much torque was required to move the nuts using your method when the engine was cold.

[headonz]

Yesterday I removed the valve , spring and guide and discovered no crack but hole about the diameter of a match stick at the edge of where the block was machined to except the new one piece guide.
Tony from Mean Machine who did the work on the engine seems optimistic about a repair once he gets the engine back , hopefully today .The engine is not co-operating at this time .Sure went in easier than its coming out !!


Ill keep you posted.

[Synchro909]

Considering the cooling system in that engine is not pressurised, an epoxy repair should be OK but I'd be guided by your machine shop - he is the one who has to stand behind whatever he does.

[headonz]

For the life of me I could not get the engine to separate from the gearbox . So I took the whole thing down to Tony.He is going to make a new slightly oversize replacement valve guide that will press fit back in and block off the 'whole' that is right in the shoulder recess where the guide shoulder contacts the block.He gave me the block/crack sealer they use ,to run in the cooling system when I get it started again.


I need to flush the sump ect.Really dont want to remove the sump and disturb the oil seals so thinking I might hang the engine block with sump attached (without head) from a hook and fill the sump with either diesel or kero and agitate it back and forth like a washing machine.Drain then put in 5lts 15/40 diesel oil and spin motor over with starter motor (12v) until oil pump drives oil into galleries and shell bearings and replace any contaminated oil water mix with fresh oil.


Any thoughts ?