Excellent Article on Oil...

[petehoovie]

Too much ZDDP can be corrosive...

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/wha...9b1bcf9b99e50a

[19Fordy]

WOW! Thanks Pete for posting that oil article.

[38 coupe]

I find the ZDDP excitement of the last few years confusing. The stuff was added to oil in 1958. Flat tappet cam wear is very much a concern with high revving overhead valve V8s with a lot of spring pressure. Flat tappet cam wear was never a concern with a lightweight flathead valve system. I don't use ZDDP addative in any of my old Fords, including my 53 with the overhead valve 215 six (the 215 is low revving with light spring pressures). I have driven tens of thousands of miles, many at 70 mph or faster, with no camshaft or lifter problems. Any of us flathead era folks don't need to worry about it, except maybe the few Bonneville racing masters among us.

[mfirth]

I'm with 38 coupe ......

[WABOOM]

On a side note, if you ever have your cam out, never degrease or solvent wash the cam.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[FortyNiner]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by 38 coupe

I find the ZDDP excitement of the last few years confusing. The stuff was added to oil in 1958. Flat tappet cam wear is very much a concern with high revving overhead valve V8s with a lot of spring pressure. Flat tappet cam wear was never a concern with a lightweight flathead valve system. I don't use ZDDP addative in any of my old Fords, including my 53 with the overhead valve 215 six (the 215 is low revving with light spring pressures). I have driven tens of thousands of miles, many at 70 mph or faster, with no camshaft or lifter problems. Any of us flathead era folks don't need to worry about it, except maybe the few Bonneville racing masters among us.

Amen, Fred. .

[tubman]

One other thing to remember is that overhead valve engines use rocker arms with a ratio of 1.5 to 1.8. So not only are flathead valve trains significantly lighter than their overhead counterparts, but the rocker arms increase that extra weight by 1.5 to 1.8 times, depending on their ratio. Given normal circumstances, this will at least triple the pressure on the cam.

[KiWinUS]

Originally Posted by WABOOM

On a side note, if you ever have your cam out, never degrease or solvent wash the cam.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Garbage. I have washed hundreds of cams of many manufacturers (&many flatheads) reused and never ever an issue.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by KiWinUS

Garbage. I have washed hundreds of cams of many manufacturers (&many flatheads) reused and never ever an issue.

Agreed. Curious of the logic of that.

[leon bee]

Waboom: I sat and thought about that. Let's hear it.

[AZMerc39]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Agreed. Curious of the logic of that.

Same. Why would you want to put a contaminated part back into your motor?

[paul2748]

This is an article posted by Ted Eaton who is an engine builder, specializing in Y Blocks. His take on diesel oil and ZDDP. He has a lengthier article on this subject which is too long to post here.


Diesel Oil and ZDDP
Use only oil rated for gasoline engines and not an engine oil rated only for diesel engines. The amount of detergent in diesel oil accelerates engine bearing wear on gasoline engines.

Depending upon the bearing clearances, I’ll use 10W-30 or 10W-40 oil for most stock type engine builds. I’m partial to the Valvoline brand but I’ve used others without issue. I’ll use conventional oil only for the break in and no synthetic or synthetic blend oil ever for engines with flat tappet camshafts like the Ford Y. The shear property of the oil is important so don’t use any oil with less than 30 in its viscosity designation on an engine with a flat tappet camshaft. When in doubt about the amount of ZDDP in a given oil, look up the manufacturers MSDS (material data safety sheet) and see what’s there. I prefer a minimum of 700-750 ppm of zinc phosphorus. A 4oz bottle of ZDDPlus supplements the first charge of oil just to insure that there is adequate ZDDP during that first run in period. With engines that leave this shop, I recommend the first oil and filter change at the 2000 mile mark. Changing the oil sooner than this can have you adding additional ZDDP additive that would not normally be needed after the 2000 mile mark.

As a side note to the ZDDP amount in the oil, an oil with reduced amounts of ZDDP simply means that the oil must be changed more frequently as the ZDDP does get used up over time. On the flip side of this, having too much zinc phosphorus in the oil can create a situation known as zinc overloading and over time, this will have the negative effect of accelerated wear or chipping of the cam lobe flanks. There is a balancing act here in having the right amount and not too much. New engines have a lot of metal to metal contact going on so having an additional amount of ZDDP during that break in time is okay.

[WABOOM]

Originally Posted by leon bee

Waboom: I sat and thought about that. Let's hear it.

The flathead engine builder Ed Smith says not to.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[WABOOM]

Originally Posted by AZMerc39

Same. Why would you want to put a contaminated part back into your motor?

It's not contaminated. It's conditioned.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by WABOOM

It's not contaminated. It's conditioned.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Sounds like you’re mixing cast iron skillet smarts with camshaft lubrication. I guess that does make sense though, you sure don’t want your fried foods to stick to your camshaft!

[Ron_r1959]

Has anyone had a issue with running synthetic oil in a AB block causing high oil consumption? I have a bigbore 59AB block with about 2000 miles on it and it seems to get rid of more oil than I think it should but no large drips anywhere? I have been told that y blocks don't like it either. Ideas on it? I jst thought it would be good for it given the nature of a flathead, but maybe not. this is the first flathead block I have put it in.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by AZMerc39

Same. Why would you want to put a contaminated part back into your motor?

Sorry for the confusion, I'm with Tony on this. Think about it, a reground cam is throughly cleaned. I'd like to know the rationale for not cleaning a cam off for reinstalling it.

[SoCalCoupe]

Always like reading oil articles. Here is my opinion. The value of my opinion is exactly what you are paying to read this post. In the early Ford V8 days, oil was total crap; not much science or additives to speak of, just basic lubrication. If I'm wrong, teach me. Just keep it changed regularly and you'll be ok. I've had two overhead valve cars with hot cams, one Ford, one Chevy. Very high spring pressure on the flat tappets. I used ZDDP in them religiously. No issues. I change the oil in my flathead every year or 1000 miles. No additives, no issues. ln other words, I don't think ZDDP is relevant or necessary for a flathead.

[Jeff/Illinois]

Originally Posted by 38 coupe

I find the ZDDP excitement of the last few years confusing. The stuff was added to oil in 1958. Flat tappet cam wear is very much a concern with high revving overhead valve V8s with a lot of spring pressure. Flat tappet cam wear was never a concern with a lightweight flathead valve system. I don't use ZDDP addative in any of my old Fords, including my 53 with the overhead valve 215 six (the 215 is low revving with light spring pressures). I have driven tens of thousands of miles, many at 70 mph or faster, with no camshaft or lifter problems. Any of us flathead era folks don't need to worry about it, except maybe the few Bonneville racing masters among us.

I am in agreement with 38 Coupe also. I've never added ZDDP to our Model A Fords OR Flatheads, and have never ever had any issues.

Now, one question I DO have... do you fellows believe a synthetic blend is OK, or is a straight oil blend better. Thanks
Seems like so many oils today are synthetic 'blend'- part base stock part synthetic....

[tubman]

When I quit racing, I found that I had a case of Mobil-1 15/50 left over (I think that it was full synthetic). Over the next few years, I used it in my stock '51 with no problems. I had heard that it would leak more, but I never saw any difference.