Distinguishing a '39 Deluxe from a '39 Standard

[lio45]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

'41 Fords have an awful lot of one-year-only features, on body AND chassis running gear. One really has to LIKE a '41 to be happy with one. Sounds like you need to wait for that "just right" '39 Deluxe to come along. DD

True, but I happen to prefer the '41 dashboard, and vertical tail lights, to name only a couple. So if I could pick and choose elements my ideal '41-'48 would be a mix of various models anyway.

Anyway, the '41 front end is growing on me, and so is the '39 Standard's. I've known for a couple decades I wanted a Ford of that era, and now I finally have my own garage, a supportive wife, and the $ to buy one, so there's no reason to wait anymore... except to make sure I find the car I want, I suppose.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

One really has to LIKE a '41 to be happy with one.

Are '41s generally less sought after than '46-'48 models...? They're more unique, older, and rarer, but they have a more radical / polarizing front end design, so I'm not sure what the overall sum of those factors does for net desirability.

[lio45]

I wouldn't say no to something like this:
http://www.americandreamcars.com/1933ford3wcp091914.htm

[lio45]

Or this:
https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2012/1...up-at-hershey/

[swoopNZ]

Google a " black 1939 Ford standard coupe " and see what comes up.
Beats all those earlier ones hands down on looks and price - especially price.

[lio45]

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One thing that's interesting, given that Ford made about 150,000 V8-60s for 1939 and only 190,000 Standards in total, this 91A Standard Coupe has got to be a fairly rare car (with less than 8,000 made if the take rate for the bigger engine was the same on coupes as sedans, and even less if it was less).

Originally Posted by jimalabam

With respect also David and lio45. I have copies of the Ford Archive production records for 1939; There are part of a compilation of production figures for 1913-1941. For 1939, here goes.
Convertible Sedan 3.561
Convertible Coupe 10,422
Standard 5-Window Coupe 38.197
Deluxe 5-Window Coupe 37,326
Standard Tudor Sedan 124,866
Deluxe Tudor Sedan 144,333
Standard Fordor Sedan 28,151
Deluxe Fordor Sedan 90.551

Hope this helps... BTW the records are stored at Benson...

[Ol' Ron]

I think the 39 thru 40 cars and trucks, are the most beautiful of all the early Fords. And if they were re produced with modern running gear, they'd be a best seller. But, I'm very old, be 85 on monday, just lov them flatheads.

[lio45]

Hi Ron,
first off, happy birthday!

But are you sure you want to apply your statement to both cars and trucks? '40 and '41 trucks are the same, while '39 trucks are identical (or pretty damn near identical, as far as I can tell) to older models.

Also, I did follow swoopNZ's advice and looked at googled models. Actually I think the '39 Standard has the nicest profile of all when viewed from the side (example below.) '40 hoods end at a 90 degree angle that's kind of sharp while all the rest of the design is curves. The '38-style hood is round. However I still think I prefer the Deluxe headlight location, which actually marked a permanent design change in auto styling (1930s style was to be on each side of the radiator opening even after they became integrated in fenders, but the headlight position over the wheels became universal from then on, pretty much until today with no exceptions for any car that still has round headlights!)

[lio45]

Also, random bit of info I learned while googling, it seems that the guy who won both the very first NASCAR race and first season (in 1948) was driving a '39 Standard. The car is on display in the Hall of Fame in Charlotte.



Vintage pics of the race from 1948:

https://racingnews.co/wp-content/upl...ll-of-Fame.jpg

[Ol' Ron]

Yes, sorry about that, I was thinking the PU was the same in 39, but the 40/41 have the looks. Again the stylr of the standard 39 is more like the 38, it;s still a beauty

[cmbrucew]

Happy Birthday Ron
I will toast you with my Diet Coke.
And many more.
Bruce

[lio45]

Originally Posted by jimalabam

With respect also David and lio45. I have copies of the Ford Archive production records for 1939; There are part of a compilation of production figures for 1913-1941. For 1939, here goes.
Convertible Sedan 3.561
Convertible Coupe 10,422
Standard 5-Window Coupe 38.197
Deluxe 5-Window Coupe 37,326
Standard Tudor Sedan 124,866
Deluxe Tudor Sedan 144,333
Standard Fordor Sedan 28,151
Deluxe Fordor Sedan 90.551

Hope this helps... BTW the records are stored at Benson...

I have a question for you guys regarding those production numbers.

From this source (VanPelt Sales, which from what I've seen is kind of a reference here),

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...ialnumbers.htm

we have this note: (note (d) pertaining to model year 1939)

(d) The available records do not show the beginning number for 1939 models with the 60hp V8 engine. According to the Early Ford V8 Club 1938-39 Ford reference book, Ford held up production of the 60hp engine for awhile due to overstock. They stopped building the engine at #54-468,967 on December 23, 1937 and did not resume production until April 20, 1939 with #54-476,288. "The Standard Catalog of Ford 1903-2003" gives production numbers of 38,197 coupes, 124,866 Tudors, unknown # of Fordors, and 3,277 Station Wagons with the 60hp V8 engines. No data for trucks and commercial vehicles with 60hp V8's is given, so the total number for 1939 is unknown.

Those are the exact numbers you're using for the total production of those models... but the 221 cid flathead was available in them as well, was it not?

"38,197 Standard coupes in total" and "38,197 coupes with the V8-60" seem incompatible to me.

If you're correct, then it means the car I'm looking at has a body that isn't the one that came with it originally. (Frame serial # is a 18-, and the body is a '39 Standard from the cowl side and battery recess in the firewall.)

But I think the other hypothesis is more likely, that the bigger flathead was available in Standards as well, and that one of the two sources is wrong.

Anyone can shed some light on this? I would appreciate

I'm interested in (slowly) restoring this car, which frankly is probably at the point where it makes more sense financially to part it out (which I'd rather avoid), and if it turns out to be somewhat interesting or rare, then it will justify at least a bit more all the time and money I'll end up spending on it if I go ahead with it.

Thanks again in advance

[swoopNZ]

How much are they asking for it ?

[lio45]

$2,200 USD.

But, as is usually the case from what I've gathered, even with a free car you'd probably be upside down in terms of equity in the end if you were to do a perfect restoration. I would want to keep it as original as possible, but I'm really not aiming for perfect or anywhere like it.

I'd start by slowly fixing the bit of rust (floors, mostly) while keeping an eye open to try to get the parts I know I'll need in the future (especially a powertrain).

[TJ]

If you want a project then buy one with the best sheetmetal you can find. It will save you a lot of money in the long run.

[lio45]

Money, or mostly time...? It's quite different. I'm looking at it as a hobby. I know your advice is sound, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't always apply to people who are do-it-yourselfers.

FWIW, I've been in real estate for nearly 15 years now, have built a sizable portfolio over the years, and I can tell you that all of these apply: 1) if you can't do anything yourself, you're really not as likely to be able to make money; 2) if you can't do anything yourself, you're better off buying something in turn-key condition; 3) if you're willing and able to do everything yourself, financially it's better to buy something in bad condition.

So the best advice possible in this case isn't universal (#2 and #3 being contradictory), it entirely varies depending on how much you plan on outsourcing to highly-paid professionals. I have the feeling the same applies to cars, to a degree.


P.S. The "best sheetmetal I can find" isn't hard to find, it's readily available to anybody :P

[V12Bill]

I remember when I was a teenager, someone in town had a '41 with 47 or 48 nose rear bumpers tail lites etc. and it all fit very well.

[swoopNZ]

Buy it.
You only live once.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by swoopNZ

You only live once.

Hehe, this argument could go both ways: am I really sure I want to spend so much of my limited time on this Earth painstakingly restoring this carcass? :P






(... the answer may still be 'yes', BTW)

[lio45]

Oh, and... does anyone have the best possible source for '39 production info? I have the Standard Catalog of Chrysler (used to be a big Mopar fan back in the day) but I don't have the FoMoCo equivalent yet, and I'm pretty sure they're the top source for such information, right?