columbia 2 speed

[flatheadA]

Hello,
I'm looking at a columbia 2 speed rear end,I think its a 39 because it has juice brakes and wide five rims.I spotted it at a local yard ,they don't know when it was in use last,it still has the wishbones and the tube attached(drums and wheels also).The owner says he has the controls also.Are parts still available for these .My question is what is the value of this item.

flatheadA

[Ken/Alabama]

Without taking it apart its a roll of the dice. You need to price it under the assumption that you are going to spend big bucks repairing whatever is broke inside and if nothing is broken consider yourself very lucky . You will still spend upward to a thousand dollars by the time you get it up and running and installed in the car. I bought one last year ,got it home and the only thing salvageble was the housing . I would think if it has the controls,all of them, I would start at a thousand ,but thats my opinion,I have built and have several of these units so if it were crunched inside I probably have enough parts to fix it without having to hunt them down.

[Old Redneck]

When I bought mine for my 39 I paid 1500 for it and no controals which was 1000 when I got them then had it rebult and another 1200 in Tenn. then had to send it back again and and another 75 bucks plus shipping 600 bucks then a Mitchell was a lot cheaper.I really like the Columbia but it not cheap by any means.Better be ready to spend 5 grand or close to it.If you plan on driving your car with one you must go through it I have found.

[flatheadA]

Thanks for the info,he wants 1200 for it and if I get it I wouldn't be able to work on it for at least a year.I don't know if I can afford to sit on that for that long.

[Randy]

You need to positively i.d. the year it's from. The '35-'36 Columbias are harder to find and more valuable, the '37-'41s are very desireable but not as rare as the earlier ones, and the '42-'48s are very common and worth the least. If I were buying one I knew nothing about, I'd be wanting to get it for around $500-$1000 depending on what year and how complete. Somebody once told me that a good way to get an idea if the Columbia is ok is to remove the shifter housing so you can shift it and turn the driveshaft and see if the axles turn both in and out of Columbia.

[flatheadA]

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As I stated earlier,it has juice brakes which would make it 39 or later,and wide 5 wheels which would make it 39 or earlier.I did not get a real close look at it,to see if it may be something someone put together ,but (correct me if I'm wrong) with the two things I've mentioned, I believe it to be a 39.Are there any numbers on the axle housing that would give me a clue as to what year it is.

[Bruce Lancaster]

Well...most '36 will have the radius rods/spring perches bolted on to 2-bolt tabs welded to axle housings. Very late '36--39 will have the radius rods bolted on via lower brake plate bolts, spring perches forged as parts of axle ends. If it is a mongrel with post-1940 parts, more complications arise.
If it has the controls and rotates, I think it is a very good gamble. Controls are expensive and scarcer than the axles themselves...unless the axle turns out to be just a casing full of iron filings, it could be a VERY good buy.
Would the guy go with contingency pricing...split the housing at junkyard, see if anything in there is visibly broken with price adjustment to match??

[blucar]

An easy way to tell if the Columbia is in fact a '39 is to look at the radius bars.. do they bolt to the back of the backing plates like all '37-39 and later. If they are attached to the axle housing it is a '35-36 or a combination thereof.. I have seen Columbia's that were '36 on the stock side and cut down '42-48 on the Columbia side.
As previously suggested pull the shift can and check the unit out.
If everything checks out OK, then either fish or cut bate... Pull green money out of your pocket, $500/600 from one pocket, keeping some reserve funds in another pocket. Anything around a $1,000. would be a good deal.
The nice thing about a Columbia is that they are a bolt in application where-as the Mitchell requires a lot of modification to the chassis..
The Columbia gives you six forward gears, and a quick passing gear which the aux transmissions do not.
I replaced the '36 Columbia in my car with a '42-48 Columbia with vacuum electric controls... It has worked great for over fifty years.

[Terry,OH]

the Columbia was also used in the Lincoln Zephyr and Auburn. The Auburn Columbia unit is on the drivers side where the Fords are on the passinger. The 39 should have a brass tag on the bottom with a possible year date (late 36-40 are the same), the housing is 21 7/8" long, as is the 41 and 35-6, to the backing plate there is a square flange for the backing plate and typical 39 spring shackle housing.

[britman]

"the Mitchell requires a lot of modification to the chassis.."

can you elaborate on this?
thanks,
bd

[blucar]

The early V8's have a "tunnel" which the torque tube runs through, if the car that the Mitchell is being added to is of stock height, ie not lowered.. the room between the Mitchell and the floor boards is minimal. A shift lever or cable must be adapted into the vehicle, usually mounted to the floor..
If memory serves me correctly, the aux transmissions were originally designed for the Model A's, which have a flat floor and lots of room in their ladder type frame.
Throughout the years the Columbia's have received bad press from many people, reputedly they are very weak, which is not the case. I use to drag race my '36 which has a well built engine, I have used to 2 speed features of the Columbia with no trouble at all for over 94,000 miles....
Aftermarket modifications to cars are like women, everyone has a different idea as to what is best for their application and/or use.

[joel]

As stated; if you can pull the canister and look ( have someone with columbia experience look would be even better), and with good operable controls I'd buy it for $1200. I traded for a 46-48 that was in the weeds for 20 yrs and the rear end gears were shot , but I only had 1 bad planetary and saved the vacuum canister and the clutch hub. I have 3 3.78 rear ends to use for parts and no controls. I figure I'll have $1800 in it at best and $2300 at the worst. Also I am sending parts to Tenn. to have it narrowed and "bulletproofed". Go to Columbia 2 Speed search to see the parts available.

[Juergen]

Check the spring perches. See if they match with yours. The later 46-48 housings are about 10 3/4 from where they mount to the center section to where they mount to the back of the backing plates. The earlier ones are 1 inch shorter and the older styles are worth the most.

On e-bay you can hardly get $100 for the 46-48 style housings while the earlier styles go for over $200. If the controls are electronic they are the later style; if pneumatic they are the earlier style. The earlier style is worth over $500 while the later is probably not worth more than $500 if all there (used condition).

The problem is you cannot tell if the planetary assembly needs major repair or is repairable at all without taking it apart. Like an earlier post, I bought one and the only thing salvageable was the outer housing (it was frozen). Another needed major repair.

For me if the rear end turns, after subtracting the worth of the outer housing, I would give another $200 without looking and $500 after taking it apart and finding everything is all right.

[Juergen]

Correction: The 46-48 Columbia axle housing length is 1 foot 10 3/4 inches (forgot the 1 foot in the previous post).

[blucar]

Actually the '42-48 Columbia's are electric over vacuum.. The shift canister on the rear axle is a vacuum canister with lines/hoses running up to the solenoids in the engine compartment, usually mounted to the left head of the engine. The solenoids shift the vacuum from side to side for the piston in the vacuum canister to shift from low to high range.
The solenoids are controlled by a self canceling toggle switch on the dash and a micro switch attached to the clutch linkage.
Up shifting is accomplished by holding the toggle switch in the on position, releasing the throttle, while depressing the clutch. Down shifting is accomplished by depressing the clutch as the throttle peddle is released.
The shifting procedure is very civilized, my wife never had any problem using the overdrive.
I used the '42-48 vacuum/electric switch and clutch switch on my '36, however, in lieu of mounting the affair to the left head I mounted the switches on the left inner fender panel. This application keeps the solenoids pretty well out of sight.
It is true that the '42-48 units are 2" wider than the earlier units, however with stock wheels an 600x16 tires most people never notice.
I used the stock '36 banjo/drive-line w/3.78 gears and '37 radius bars... A bolt together application...

[6201241hg]

You all have overlooked the speedometer shifting mechanism that is required when using a Columbia two speed rear end. When using a modern overdrive the transmission is shifted, when using a Columbia the rear end is shifted therefore the speedometer will be wrong. This problem will not keep you from driving the car, but it would be nice to know what speed you are going. Unfortunately this assembly is almost impossible to find. I have two Columbia two speeds installed with all controls I was lucky. Good luck

[4dFord/SC]

Originally Posted by 6201241hg

You all have overlooked the speedometer shifting mechanism that is required when using a Columbia two speed rear end. When using a modern overdrive the transmission is shifted, when using a Columbia the rear end is shifted therefore the speedometer will be wrong. This problem will not keep you from driving the car, but it would be nice to know what speed you are going. Unfortunately this assembly is almost impossible to find. I have two Columbia two speeds installed with all controls I was lucky. Good luck

620 is correct that probably the hardest Columbia component to find is the Stewart-Warner speedometer adapter. However, the same unit was also used on truck underdrives and can be converted for overdrive use by reversing the internal gears. I've gotten several of these truck units off eBay in the past and had them converted for overdrive use by John Connelly of Columbia Two Speed Parts, Inc. (951-719-4077; [email protected]). John is an excellent resource for all things Columbia, and you may wish to contact him for his price list of Columbia parts so as to have some idea of rebuild costs, if needed. I believe someone above mentioned 4-5 grand as a ballpark number for a fully rebuilt, bullet-proofed Columbia with all the controls, which is probably not too much off the mark these days. However, IMHO once you've had a Columbia, you'll never want to go back.

[blucar]

I did not overlook the speedo shift unit for the late model Columbia's... Mine is on the inside of the firewall with the two small vacuum lines running from the solenoid pack to the S/W speedo unit.
Most trucks with vacuum operated 2 speed rear axles did use the S/W speedo shift unit.

[Strick]

the Early Ford Store in San Dimas, CA (that Denise mentioned in her earlier post) had a complete one rebuilt, bullet-proofed for $4950 but don't think it included the controls.

[6201241hg]

Blucar; I do not know how you could mount the speedometer shift mechanism on the inside of the fire wall with out being double jointed. How can you see to service the unit? It is bad enough mounting it on the outside of the fire wall. Where would you mount a radio? What ever works is fine. Nice 1936 coupe.