The Ford Barn

38 steel header · 03-19-2016, 09:11 AM

Hi all, don't wan to intrude on this thread but can you guys guide me to threads for swapping out 4 speed to a 3 speed or better yet a modern 5 speed. Much appreciated!

pj's junkers · 03-19-2016, 09:42 AM

BB denotes 60hp motor for 1940 serial number started with BB54-506501 85hp denoted by 18

browke · 09-27-2016, 12:44 AM

I'll add some more to the 'BB' mystery. I have a 1940 01 pickup that I purchased from the original owner. The original title came with it. I've attached a photo of the top portion of the original Nebraska title that shows the "Motor No." starting with 'BB'.
Note: I blurred the last few numbers from the Motor No. in a photo editor just because I'm not sure how prudent it is to post a photo of the unedited title.
The numbers stamped on the frame and the bell housing are identical to the number on the title but do not have the 'BB' prefix. It's just *18562XXXX* (I've omitted that last 4 digits).
The truck has the original V8 engine and original 3-speed trans.
Does this help clarify what the 'BB' prefix means? It doesn't seem to match up with the suggestion that BB means a 4-speed trans. Since the 'BB' prefix doesn't appear on the frame, it must have been copied from the Mfr Cert.
Any ideas how to interpret the meaning of the 'BB' in my situation?

G.M. · 09-27-2016, 08:26 AM

I have a 1939 4 cyl industrial power unit on an Ashpeth "orange"
belt drive machine with an in/out clutch. This was used to power
the early brush chipper. There were three uses for the 9 N engine,
tractors, industrial and the Ford P/U. Each type had different type
of serial numbers. I looked years ago and could find nobody in the
world that had a list of the industrial serial numbers. The trucks
and tractors are well documented. I when to New Holland Farm
Equipment Co and met with 3 or 4 engineers in the lobby about
20 years ago. The company had been sold 3 or 4 times and these
were all fairly new people. One that was there a little longer said
the old guy that kept the records retired and the company had no
interest in keeping the old records and gave them to him. I tried
but was never able to find him. Maybe someone from another
company that used these engines may have info on them. I'm in
Penna. for a few more weeks but when I get back to Fl. I'll post
the serial number of my engine. Mine has a Twin Disc Co. clutch
with the serial number of the clutch, I called them and they had
records that showed my unit was sent back to the factory in 1950
and was rebuilt. The engine was also rebuilt in 1950 but apparently
installed by a helper and he never got it running. I guess it was put
in some corner and became obsolete and sold for scrape. It wound
up a place that cuts up old cars. They had a few 1947 Ford convertible
cowl units that I bought some part from. Every time I went there for
the next few years the guy would say it was a Model A engine and try
to sell it to me. Finally said I'll give you $15.00 for it and he said it"s
yours. The valve covers were off so I guess they thought there was a
valve problem. I found a set of valve covers and discovered two spark
plug wires were crossed on the cap. It is the best, smoothest running
4 cyl engine I ever heard. I made new sheet metal for it and a grill
similar to a Ford tractor and painted it Ford tractor gray. G.M.

Kube · 09-27-2016, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj's junkers

BB denotes 60hp motor for 1940 serial number started with BB54-506501 85hp denoted by 18

Actually the "54" denotes the 60HP. The "BB" per my research does in fact indicate the four speed transmission.

Bruce Lancaster · 09-27-2016, 11:14 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

BB went onto large trucks for years, BB18 for 221, BB54 for 60, just BB in the early years with B engine. The serial is the ENGINE number, actually engine/trans assembly, and 4 speed truck units got the BB prefix regardless of what they went into. This sort of thing applied to all combos...for instance, in '39-42, a small number of special order Ford cars got Mercury 239 engines. These all got the 99 serial numbers that went with the power units.
Trans swap...just get a passenger trans with right clutch lever and rear mount for your year AND a Ujoint from a 3 speed.

38bill · 09-27-2016, 11:20 AM

For what its worth: My info states that the 4 speed was an option for 112" wheel base (commercial cars) vehicles so it wouldn't need to be a "truck".

phoneman · 10-30-2016, 08:36 PM

I Have a 1940 1/2 ton pickup with a 221 v8 and 4 speed. the number on the frame and bell housing appears to be 9C 2040 I have not found any reference to 9C does this seem correct?

alanwoodieman · 10-30-2016, 09:00 PM

9C means your truck was originally a 4 cylinder, look at the floor around/behind the gas pedal and see if it has be altered/patched to cover the original "hole" for the 4 cylinder starter.

phoneman · 10-31-2016, 08:37 AM

Thank you for the reply. I wondered if being a 4 cylinder was the answer. Was the "hole" a clearance provision or a starter button? I'm pretty sure the cab on mine was changed (it had framed door glass). It was an unfinished restoration project that I bought on an estate auction years 23 years ago. There were parts from other trucks on the same auction.

pj's junkers · 10-31-2016, 09:06 AM

That appears to be a Model B 4 cylinder number started at 5000000 and up

pj's junkers · 10-31-2016, 09:10 AM

Sorry, missed the 18 should be a big truck 1 1/2 ton denoted by the BB but a v-8

alanwoodieman · 10-31-2016, 11:37 AM

the hole was for the starter Bendix, on tractor engines the starter was up high

phoneman · 10-31-2016, 02:45 PM

Would this 4 cylinder serial number make my truck a 41 instead of a 40. Most I read 4 cylinder started in 41.

alanwoodieman · 10-31-2016, 02:58 PM

yes 40 trucks had the 60 hp v8

phoneman · 10-31-2016, 03:02 PM

Thanks for all of your help.

G.M. · 10-31-2016, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanwoodieman

I had a 1941 4 cylinder pick up with a factory 4 speed, the serial number was 11T---strange but true, I have access to the engine/trans, we put this into a stripdown Model A to run around at the farm shows, parades, etc

The 4 cyl trucks had the 11T serial numbers. The same engine in the
8 or 9N tractors have tractor serial numbers that there are records of.
The same engines used on industrial equipment had their own serial
sequence but I haven't been able to find anyone who has any records
on these engines. G.M.

40fordpu · 11-10-2016, 06:06 PM

Following

alanwoodieman · 11-10-2016, 09:46 PM

the 41 1/2 ton pick up equipped with 3 spd trans used 9C-------, 4 speed used 9T I have owned one of each

rotorwrench · 11-11-2016, 03:39 PM

Trucks & commercials are hard to find information about since they used various different engine and trans combinations. In some previous threads about this, there seemed to be prefix changes any time there was engine type (V8, V8-60, G6, & 9N), engine CID (221 or 239 V8), or whether it had a light duty 3-speed, 4-speed, or 4-speed big truck trans.

9C is the prefix that most folks mention about the 9N engined vehicles. It should have been 9NC but that would have made too much sense. I don't think they made very many 4-banger vehicles in 1942. The sales were dismal and the war brought a stop to all sales by April of 1942 anyway. Don't you know that the poor Ford dealers had to pull there belt up tighter than a drum for the war years. All they could sell was service & parts and any old used cars they could patch up good enough to move out. Even the 2N tractor was spartan with no starter or electrics and a magneto for ignition.

03-19-2016, 09:11 AM	#21
38 steel header Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Ca. Posts: 2	Re: 1940 Pickup w / 4 speed serial number? Hi all, don't wan to intrude on this thread but can you guys guide me to threads for swapping out 4 speed to a 3 speed or better yet a modern 5 speed. Much appreciated!

03-19-2016, 09:42 AM	#22
pj's junkers Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Vivian, La Posts: 216	Re: 1940 Pickup w / 4 speed serial number? BB denotes 60hp motor for 1940 serial number started with BB54-506501 85hp denoted by 18

09-27-2016, 08:26 AM	#24
G.M. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Florida and Penna. Posts: 4,471	Re: 1940 Pickup w / 4 speed serial number? I have a 1939 4 cyl industrial power unit on an Ashpeth "orange" belt drive machine with an in/out clutch. This was used to power the early brush chipper. There were three uses for the 9 N engine, tractors, industrial and the Ford P/U. Each type had different type of serial numbers. I looked years ago and could find nobody in the world that had a list of the industrial serial numbers. The trucks and tractors are well documented. I when to New Holland Farm Equipment Co and met with 3 or 4 engineers in the lobby about 20 years ago. The company had been sold 3 or 4 times and these were all fairly new people. One that was there a little longer said the old guy that kept the records retired and the company had no interest in keeping the old records and gave them to him. I tried but was never able to find him. Maybe someone from another company that used these engines may have info on them. I'm in Penna. for a few more weeks but when I get back to Fl. I'll post the serial number of my engine. Mine has a Twin Disc Co. clutch with the serial number of the clutch, I called them and they had records that showed my unit was sent back to the factory in 1950 and was rebuilt. The engine was also rebuilt in 1950 but apparently installed by a helper and he never got it running. I guess it was put in some corner and became obsolete and sold for scrape. It wound up a place that cuts up old cars. They had a few 1947 Ford convertible cowl units that I bought some part from. Every time I went there for the next few years the guy would say it was a Model A engine and try to sell it to me. Finally said I'll give you $15.00 for it and he said it"s yours. The valve covers were off so I guess they thought there was a valve problem. I found a set of valve covers and discovered two spark plug wires were crossed on the cap. It is the best, smoothest running 4 cyl engine I ever heard. I made new sheet metal for it and a grill similar to a Ford tractor and painted it Ford tractor gray. G.M. __________________ www.fordcollector.com

09-27-2016, 11:14 AM	#26
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: 1940 Pickup w / 4 speed serial number? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) BB went onto large trucks for years, BB18 for 221, BB54 for 60, just BB in the early years with B engine. The serial is the ENGINE number, actually engine/trans assembly, and 4 speed truck units got the BB prefix regardless of what they went into. This sort of thing applied to all combos...for instance, in '39-42, a small number of special order Ford cars got Mercury 239 engines. These all got the 99 serial numbers that went with the power units. Trans swap...just get a passenger trans with right clutch lever and rear mount for your year AND a Ujoint from a 3 speed.

09-27-2016, 11:20 AM	#27
38bill Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,208	Re: 1940 Pickup w / 4 speed serial number? For what its worth: My info states that the 4 speed was an option for 112" wheel base (commercial cars) vehicles so it wouldn't need to be a "truck".

10-30-2016, 08:36 PM	#28
phoneman Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 13	Re: 1940 Pickup w / 4 speed serial number? I Have a 1940 1/2 ton pickup with a 221 v8 and 4 speed. the number on the frame and bell housing appears to be 9C 2040 I have not found any reference to 9C does this seem correct?

10-30-2016, 09:00 PM	#29
alanwoodieman Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: upstate SC Posts: 3,006	Re: 1940 Pickup w / 4 speed serial number? 9C means your truck was originally a 4 cylinder, look at the floor around/behind the gas pedal and see if it has be altered/patched to cover the original "hole" for the 4 cylinder starter.

10-31-2016, 08:37 AM	#30
phoneman Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 13	Re: 1940 Pickup w / 4 speed serial number? Thank you for the reply. I wondered if being a 4 cylinder was the answer. Was the "hole" a clearance provision or a starter button? I'm pretty sure the cab on mine was changed (it had framed door glass). It was an unfinished restoration project that I bought on an estate auction years 23 years ago. There were parts from other trucks on the same auction.

10-31-2016, 09:06 AM	#31
pj's junkers Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Vivian, La Posts: 216	Re: 1940 Pickup w / 4 speed serial number? That appears to be a Model B 4 cylinder number started at 5000000 and up

10-31-2016, 09:10 AM	#32
pj's junkers Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Vivian, La Posts: 216	Re: 1940 Pickup w / 4 speed serial number? Sorry, missed the 18 should be a big truck 1 1/2 ton denoted by the BB but a v-8

10-31-2016, 11:37 AM	#33
alanwoodieman Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: upstate SC Posts: 3,006	Re: 1940 Pickup w / 4 speed serial number? the hole was for the starter Bendix, on tractor engines the starter was up high

10-31-2016, 02:45 PM	#34
phoneman Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 13	Re: 1940 Pickup w / 4 speed serial number? Would this 4 cylinder serial number make my truck a 41 instead of a 40. Most I read 4 cylinder started in 41.

10-31-2016, 02:58 PM	#35
alanwoodieman Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: upstate SC Posts: 3,006	Re: 1940 Pickup w / 4 speed serial number? yes 40 trucks had the 60 hp v8

10-31-2016, 03:02 PM	#36
phoneman Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 13	Re: 1940 Pickup w / 4 speed serial number? Thanks for all of your help.

11-10-2016, 06:06 PM	#38
40fordpu Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Murrieta, CA Posts: 637	Re: 1940 Pickup w / 4 speed serial number? Following

11-10-2016, 09:46 PM	#39
alanwoodieman Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: upstate SC Posts: 3,006	Re: 1940 Pickup w / 4 speed serial number? the 41 1/2 ton pick up equipped with 3 spd trans used 9C-------, 4 speed used 9T I have owned one of each

11-11-2016, 03:39 PM	#40
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 18,011	Re: 1940 Pickup w / 4 speed serial number? Trucks & commercials are hard to find information about since they used various different engine and trans combinations. In some previous threads about this, there seemed to be prefix changes any time there was engine type (V8, V8-60, G6, & 9N), engine CID (221 or 239 V8), or whether it had a light duty 3-speed, 4-speed, or 4-speed big truck trans. 9C is the prefix that most folks mention about the 9N engined vehicles. It should have been 9NC but that would have made too much sense. I don't think they made very many 4-banger vehicles in 1942. The sales were dismal and the war brought a stop to all sales by April of 1942 anyway. Don't you know that the poor Ford dealers had to pull there belt up tighter than a drum for the war years. All they could sell was service & parts and any old used cars they could patch up good enough to move out. Even the 2N tractor was spartan with no starter or electrics and a magneto for ignition.