Piston rings for a 221 c.i ?

[36tudordeluxe]

JSeery, thanks for the tutorial. Honing/de-glazing is the same operation? Will get the "ball" type hone and do myself, am trying to avoid the machine shop. Crank is still in the block with rod bearings covered individually with Cling wrap secured with wire ties.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by 36tudordeluxe

Honing/de-glazing is the same operation?

No, they are not the same operation, but they are similar. De-glazing is a much quicker procedure on cylinders that just need the glaze (slick surface) removed. Honing is the final stage in cylinder prep and is used to bring the cylinder diameter to the desired size and finish.

[36tudordeluxe]

Originally Posted by JSeery

No, they are not the same operation, but they are similar. De-glazing is a much quicker procedure on cylinders that just need the glaze (slick surface) removed. Honing is the final stage in cylinder prep and is used to bring the cylinder diameter to the desired size and finish.

Okay, understood now. I measured piston across the wrist pin hole and came up with a dia. of 3.1215" and cylinder bore of 3.1250". I think this is a little loose based on a chart I'm referring to but should be okay, right? BTW, this is a 221 at .060 over. UPDATE: Think my measurements may be bogus, am getting something different every time I remeasure the bore, more often than not I get a bore dia. smaller than the piston!

[JSeery]

Yep, you are not wanting to increase the bore, just rough up the surface (cross-hatch pattern). There are a lot of videos and information online on doing this.

[Ronnie]

Now that you pointed in the correct direction,let the deglazing begin.What to lubricant to use is real easy,just go to the closest auto parts store and buy some non grit hand cleaner See attached pic.Use it as the lubricant with the flex hone and you will get a superb cylinder after cleaning.The reason you do this is that the wash up after deglazing becomes a breeze as the hand cleaner is water soluble and cleans up very well.Now check with the white rag as described and confirm cleanliness and you are well onto the road of sucess.The cleanup must be done with hot water and a detergent of some sort like tide and a sponge if possible.All will wash out well and again confirm cleanliness,spray down with wd 40 as it is a moisture displacement and then a lite coat of oil for storage until assembly begins.Hope this helps.

R

[36tudordeluxe]

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Here's where I'm at: final measurement for the piston is 3.1215"-3.1220". For the bore I get 3.1140" using adjustable bore gauge and then measuring with calipers, bore measures smaller than piston but the piston fits in nicely. Would think one or both measurements are bad. If the 3 1/16" bore is .060 over I should have at least 3.1225". Think my Harbor Freight instruments may be sub-standard? Will get the hand cleaner as described.

UPDATE: apology to Harbor Freight, reading dial incorrectly

[JSeery]

One thing you can do is get some long feeler gauge strips. Put the strip in the cylinder beside the piston and check how hard it is to pull it out. When you find a strip that is fairly resistant to being pulled out that should be a good approximation of your piston clearance. Need a couple of say .001, .002, .003, etc. You can stack two together like two .003 strips for .006 or a .002 and .003 for .005 and so on.

Measuring bore sizes is very difficult without a true bore gauge, I never had much luck with telescope style gauges.

[Ronnie]

Originally Posted by 36tudordeluxe

Here's where I'm at: final measurement for the piston is 3.1215"-3.1220". For the bore I get 3.1140" using adjustable bore gauge and then measuring with calipers, bore measures smaller than piston but the piston fits in nicely. Would think one or both measurements are bad. If the 3 1/16" bore is .060 over I should have at least 3.1225". Think my Harbor Freight instruments may be sub-standard? Will get the hand cleaner as described.

UPDATE: apology to Harbor Freight, reading dial incorrectly

Its .060" over. Carry on.Get the hand cleaner and a flex hone and then you will be able to give sound advice as a de glazer by saying bin there done that."LOL"

R

[flatjack9]

Originally Posted by 36tudordeluxe

Okay, understood now. I measured piston across the wrist pin hole and came up with a dia. of 3.1215" and cylinder bore of 3.1250". I think this is a little loose based on a chart I'm referring to but should be okay, right? BTW, this is a 221 at .060 over. UPDATE: Think my measurements may be bogus, am getting something different every time I remeasure the bore, more often than not I get a bore dia. smaller than the piston!

You should be measuring the piston diameter at 90* from the pin bore.

[36tudordeluxe]

Originally Posted by flatjack9

You should be measuring the piston diameter at 90* from the pin bore.

Yes, that's what I'm doing, didn't explain myself well. Final measurements show .0035" clearance.
Would the 3 1/4" Flex hone be the right size for my cylinders?

[Ronnie]

The flex hone is extremely flexible and that will serve you well.

R

[Ronnie]

Any progress report yet?

R

[36tudordeluxe]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

Any progress report yet?

R

Nothing accomplished yet, waiting on Flex hone from Summit and machinist said he would get back to me on the rings. I did get the hand cleaner you suggested!

[Ronnie]

You can order the rings yourself from Hastings.

R

[36tudordeluxe]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

You can order the rings yourself from Hastings.

R

Thought you had to be a part house or machine shop(post #6) to buy direct, anyway they should be here middle of next week. Got the Flex Hone today and will give it a go tomorrow.

[scooder]

Ronnie,
Question 're the Hastings rings.
How different are the New Hastings rings over "ancient" rings? Are they still cast iron? If there still in the Hastings catalogue, does that meen there still the same tech as the old ones?
Really interested in what makes um so much better, not questioning your knowledge at all, just like to know what's what.
Thanks,
Martin.

[Ronnie]

The rings will be current design the same foundry on site will cast and machine them.
The components are also designed around current machining practices.Those rings are cast as many of the rings are still cast.As an example the oil rings are modern and not 70 years old design and manufacturing has made many changes in 70 years.The top ring is a barrel face type 032 and the second ring is a reverse torsional type 126.Those two designs are used in many many current sets today.Rings at the factory are done on state of the art equipment.Jump on the web page and see some of the info available for you to read.Some good info.

R

[Ol' Ron]

Does the Hastings ring have a 3 piece oil ring for the third gruve??

[Ronnie]

The oil ring is 3 piece but not the flex vent that is popular but it does use the same rails as the flex vent.If there is room the groove could be widened to 3/16" as there is a oil set that is produced in flex vent that could work if the groove depth were the same.The conventional flex vent 3 piece uses a #860 spacer,and the spacer in the 5/32 set isn't the same as a standard flex vent,but it is 3 piece.

R

[scooder]

Ronnie,
Thanks for answering. Sounds good to me. I'll have me a look around their website.
Martin.