engine timing

[James Rogers]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Remember NOT to use the knotch in the cam as an indicator for # 1. It is 180 degrees from the BUSINESS end of the rotor. As a starting point, point the BUSINESS END of the rotor toward the R/F HEADLIGHT.
Ed did his 180 degrees off, blew off the Kzhaust pipe, DESTROYED the muffler & blew big chunks of stuff into his neighbors' garage, across the street!!!
Bill W.

Wrong.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by James Rogers

Wrong.

Well, James, I "THOUGHT" I remembered it being 180 off! Excuuuuuuse me.
Bill W.

[Mike V. Florida]

He was looking for a simple way and this thread is 2 pages long?

[Patrick L.]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

He was looking for a simple way and this thread is 2 pages long?

Its easy for us to get carried away, isn't it. Apparently not all read the posts. And as usual the answer is within the first few posts.

['46Ford]

This may not be related to your discussion, however here is a problem I am have on the timing issues...I am having trouble with my 51-52 Merc V8 flathead. It was already in my "46 Coupe when I got it. I can only get it to start with the timing (distributor) advanced quite a bit. It will fire and start up, runs rough. Once I get the timing set, it runs very well, real smooth, however if I turn it off with the timing set, it will not start again unless I advance the distributor again, then repeat everything again. Once it is running and timed, it sounds great, it just won't start back up (Hot or cold) once I shut it down with the correct timing. Does anyone have any ideas on how to get this fixed?

[dnkcurtis]

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Surprised no one mentioned, plugs out watching #1 piston coming up to near the top, and inserting the pin, put the car in 3rd gear and slightly roll the car forward finding the dimple. If you go by, roll it backwards. This is an easy one person job.

[Jacksonlll]

I just put the car in third gear and move the car back and forth while pushing on the pin and I find it every time. Using the crank and stopping at the right point is hard.

[zzlegend]

Originally Posted by '46Ford

This may not be related to your discussion, however here is a problem I am have on the timing issues...I am having trouble with my 51-52 Merc V8 flathead. It was already in my "46 Coupe when I got it. I can only get it to start with the timing (distributor) advanced quite a bit. It will fire and start up, runs rough. Once I get the timing set, it runs very well, real smooth, however if I turn it off with the timing set, it will not start again unless I advance the distributor again, then repeat everything again. Once it is running and timed, it sounds great, it just won't start back up (Hot or cold) once I shut it down with the correct timing. Does anyone have any ideas on how to get this fixed?

46 Ford. You might try posting this on the Early V8 32-53 section This is the Model A section.

[burner31]

PURDY'S WAY:

The timing instructions that I've seen are very confusing to the unknowing. One of the highly regarded timing instruction states that the sweet spot that the tip of the rotor must point at is only good to get you home. Many that try to follow this one keep trying to get the points to be just ready to open and end up moving the points cam. Moving the points cam off the sweet spot gets the distributor out of time . The points can be adjusted at anytime without loosening and moving the points cam. Ford specs for points gap is anywhere from .018 to .022 . Increasing points gap causes the points to open quicker and advances timing. decreasing points gap causes the points to open later and retards timing . The other popular timing instruction says that the rotor tip should point opposite the number one contact in the distributor. This causes some to think that the rotor tip should point at the number 4 contact in the distributor cap and the timing ends up 180 degrees out of time . Neither timing instruction goes in to any real detail about rotational backlash in the distributor shaft and which direction that the backlash must be in when the points cam is tightened. Actually points gap isn't that great of a cause for the model A timing being that far off , as long as the gap is within Ford specs. The three most important things about model A timing is where the rotor tip points , direction of backlash after the points cam is tightened and that the upper plate has full swing within the window in the rear of the distributor cap. Full swing meaning that the lever on the breaker moves all the way to the right side of the window for retard and all the way to the left of the window in the cap for advance.

I don't set my timing by the points. When the timing pin drops in the dimple of the timing gear, I adjust the points cam so that the trailing tip of the rotor points at the number one contact in the distributor cap. When the cam screw is tightened , there must be no clockwise rotation in the distributor shaft. There is always some rotational backlash in the distributor shaft, sometimes as much as 1/2 inch . In other words, all rotational backlash must be in the counter clockwise direction , where it will have no effect on timing. The reason being is that when the engine runs, the distributor shaft turns in the counter clockwise direction . If clockwise backlash remains, the engine will have to turn to catch up the backlash before the distributor shaft can turn. When the engine must turn before the distributor shaft begins to turn , this causes the timing to be retarded to what ever amount of backlash that had to be caught up before the distributor shaft could turn. This is why direction of backlash is so important. If there is 1/2 inch of backlash in the clockwise direction after the cam screw is tightened, the timing will be so retarded that the engine probably will not even run. If it does run it will be very weak and the exhaust manifold will get red hot. As for points gap, I don't bother with retarding the spark lever. I turn the engine untill the rubbing block on the points is on the highest point on the cam lobe, I don't mess with the cam screw . I loosen the lock screw on the points block and turn the adjustable point untill the gap opens to .022 and tighten the lock screw on the points block. Twenty two thousants is maximum gap acording to Ford specs and advances the timing to the max before there is danger of starter kick back. For me this gives quickest throttle response and gives the most time before the rubbing block on the points wears to the point that the points will have to be readjusted. When the points gap closes to less than .018 it will be time to readjust the points or you will begin to lose power and the exhaust manifold will begin to over heat . Truth be known, the model A will run good as long as points gap is within Ford specs of .018 to .022. Some prefer a more conservative gap of .020. The highly respected method is when the timing is on the mark with the spark lever fully retarded that the points should be just ready to open. This can be correctly arrived at by points gap adjustment. I don't feel that it is worth the trouble and feel that it causes the confusion that ends up with the timing being off. There is only about .004 thousants leway in points adjustment within specs, that minor amount will change constantly as the engine runs and the points block wears . Cam lube will decrease wear and the length before points adjustments will be necessary. I don't believe that the small amount that the gap will fluctuate will be that noticable untill the gap closes to less than .018 .
Last edited by Purdy Swoft; 01-15-2015 at 12:52 PM.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by burner31

...Last edited by Purdy Swoft; 01-15-2015 at 12:52 PM.

I sure miss that guy around here!

[burner31]

Originally Posted by CarlG

I sure miss that guy around here!

Yep, agreed.

He has the best method and the best explanation on timing that I have found to date.
I wish he would return to share more.

Knowledge is wasted...if not passed on