Water Pump Question

[old ugly]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

old ugly: you asked "do you have the bearing or bushing that came out of it?" Yes I do, why do you ask?

is it still good or worn out?

if good reuse it.
if worn out measure it to get the exact size bearing needed

3rd option. i can try to measure one i have here so you can see if it is the housing undersize or if the new bearing is oversize

[old ugly]

your measurement of the inside of the housing is the same as i come up with on a pump i have here.
as far as i can tell it is original.

the original has a sleeve inside for the original roller type bearing to run on. the retainer cup goes in then, the felt, then the washer, then the sleeve goes in, then the bearing then a flat washer, felt and then a flanged retainer/bearing cup washer.
that is the original way it goes together.

you can see the parts in this part selection from snyders. and you can buy those individual parts separate. from that kit. https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...9276&cat=41793

these parts
https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...9272&cat=41793
https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...9274&cat=41793
https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...9271&cat=41793
https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...9271&cat=41793
https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/2...htm?pid=979270

if it were I. i would order the 2 retainer cups, 2 washers, 2 felts, the sleeve, and the roller bearing. and put it back original.

[old ugly]

as well
i would put at least one of these on to control the back and forth movement on the shaft.
you may be able to put one on each end to keep the shaft center.
it may save your rad if that clearance is minimal or it may stop the pump from going to far into the head. it is a trial and error thing of which way you want to put it on.
https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...9255&cat=41793

[Joe K]

The usual fault for "back & forth" motion of the shaft/impeller is a worn "bridge" in the head.

A collar will do it from the outside, providing you have a good spot (the gland nut?) to land the collar against.

Another solution is found when you press on the impeller - you can usually push on the impeller a little "further" leaving more stick-out to contact the bridge.

I have fixed this by drilling and tapping the bridge in the head and then winding a brass bolt into the bridge. This bolt can then be adjusted to "make up" any free-play in the shaft.

Similarly I have drilled and tapped the shaft to take on a bolt and this way not hazard the drilling/tapping doing damage to the head.

Under each of these bolts use a stainless washer so the bolt "jambs" in place on the washer.

Joe K

[Terry Burtz, Calif]

Originally Posted by Joe K

Ford "original" Model A replacement pump from the 1930s. Utilizes the "face seal" popularized originally in the two manifold mounted V8 water pumps. The impeller appears the same as the V8 pump.

Note the absence of a "gland."

Below an Ebay pix so it won't last, but the Model A pumps are still found in quantity at your local antique auto flea market. There are like three of these shown by three separate sellers on Ebay.

I'm not sure such a pump can be rebuilt because of parts availability.

Correction: CW Moss carries the "rebuild kit" for the flathead V8 pump. Stub shaft appears adapted to the flathead pair of pumps and would require re-adaptation to the long shaft Model A pump.

Joe K

Joe K,

Thanks for your comment.

I know that Ford offered a replacement Model A water pump with a face seal at the parts counter after Model A production ended. This water pump is shown in the eBay picture you posted, and it will lose points if judged.

The external appearance of the new water pump matches the original water pump, with a packing nut and grease fittings.

There is a design difference between 1932 face seals and modern face seals.

Terry Burtz

[rotorwrench]

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Originally Posted by Terry Burtz, Calif

A new water pump, which looks original and features a Carbon/Ceramic face seal, will soon be available. I will post more details in the thread titled "I need a job".

The new water pump uses 3 deep groove ball bearings that are sealed for life, and the same face seal that is used in Ford 2.3 (140), 2.5 (153), 3.0 (183), 3.3 (200), 3.8 (231), 4.1 (250), 4.2 (255), 5.0(302), 5.8 (351), 6.6 (400), and 7.5 (460) engines. This face seal is also used in water pumps for American Motors, General Motors, and Chrysler engines.

Now we're talking. That should be as close to "leakless" as it gets. They all crap out eventually.

[Joe K]

There is a design difference between 1932 face seals and modern face seals.

Thank you and that was the point of my bringing up the aftermarket pump. You filled in the parts that were not plainly said earlier.

Materials science HAS improved since 1935.

Joe K

[[email protected]]

old ugly, you said "the original has a sleeve inside for the original roller type bearing to run on" how do you get that sleeve out?

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Terry Burtz, Calif

A new water pump, which looks original and features a Carbon/Ceramic face seal, will soon be available. I will post more details in the thread titled "I need a job".

The new water pump uses 3 deep groove ball bearings that are sealed for life, and the same face seal that is used in Ford 2.3 (140), 2.5 (153), 3.0 (183), 3.3 (200), 3.8 (231), 4.1 (250), 4.2 (255), 5.0(302), 5.8 (351), 6.6 (400), and 7.5 (460) engines. This face seal is also used in water pumps for American Motors, General Motors, and Chrysler engines.

That sounds VERY like what I have done to a couple of my water pumps. I've run a carbon seal for at least 10-12 years and even considered sending some to the US.

[[email protected]]

I finally figured it out. Behind the sleeve there is a bearing cup washer with felt. Place a long screwdrive thru the back side of the housing and you can pound the washer and sleeve out.

[old ugly]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

old ugly, you said "the original has a sleeve inside for the original roller type bearing to run on" how do you get that sleeve out?

it has been a while since i accually rebuilt one but you can try this.

that race for the bearing to run on is split just like in that picture from snyders.
if you don't see that split when you look inside and there is no internal diameter change in size the race is probably been removed all ready.

if you can see the split and there is a wee bit of a raised part inside then it is still in there. also the rear felt seal would still be in there.
you can most likely use a skinny pointy punch and tap to get between it and the wall of the housing. bend it in. do this rite close to the split. if you can get it to bend in it will loosen.
you could also try going in from the rear of the pump with a long flat ended punch and try to catch the edge of the felt retainer and tap it out but there is not much of a lip there to hit on.
just like [email protected] said. hahaha thats you, way to go!