I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

So, I gave in a few weeks ago and bought my second 'A'. The car ran beautifully on my test drive, drove beautifully onto the trailer the next week, and just as well a couple of days later on a 5–6-mile drive up the road.

I grounded it for a couple of days to change the oil, grease the fittings, etc. After starting it from the oil change, however, it did not run well and had developed a tick once it had warmed up.

I messed around with adjustments and took it for a short drive and found it would not climb hills and would not go into 2nd gear without coughing and spluttering, so I limped it home in 1st.

I took apart the carb, which seems OK and retimed it and it ran a little better. Had it idling yesterday and it seems to fall in and out of smooth running. The carb will slurp in air, and the tick still remains once the engine warms a little. I have not been able to place the tick entirely, but it sounds loudest in front. Its rhythm is about double that of a clock but half that of the general engine rhythm.

Could it all be (hopefully) related? Could it be multiple problems?

As always, any help is appreciated!

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

Could be a sticky valve. Try a compression test. If it is, try running some MMO in the fuel. Normal dose is 2 oz. in 5 gallons but it won't hurt anything to go above that for trying to unstick a valve.

You checked timing. Check point gap. Grease the cam a bit.

How fresh is the gas in it?

Is car wired up positive ground? If you know how, check the wiring of the coil polarity.

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

Ticking noise like that usually indicates a blown exhaust manifold gasket. This is irritating, but it won't affect the misfiring and coughing condition. Try a little 3-n-1 oil in the distributor, too. The bushings may be getting dry, which will cause a chirping sound.

As to the lack of power and misfiring, put a glove on your left hand and while the engine is running, cup your hand over the carb's intake throat to the point that the engine almost wants to die - but not quite. With your right hand, rev the engine up via the carb's throttle arm a number of times. Cup your hand during this procedure so that the carb is able to draw in just enough air to keep running, but is almost on the verge of dying. This causes greater suction inside the carb and if there is a small piece of junk caught in a jet, this extra pressure will draw it through. Really rev hard. The reason you are wearing a glove is because the carb might backfire and you want your hand protected from the flame. After revving the engine a few times, remove your left hand from the back of the carb and rev the engine up naturally. If it still stumbles, most likely a clogged jet was not at fault.

Since you don't know the full history of this car's restoration, a previous owner may not have properly cleaned out the gas tank. Rust, gunk and bits of old gas gauge cork float collect on the bottom of the tank and eventually find their way into the on/off valve, which is the lowest place on the gas tank (pre-late 1931). To check whether that on/off valve is clogged - which slows fuel flow to the carb under power demands, but not during idling - turn off the fuel, remove the gas cap, loosen the two fuel line brass fittings and disconnect the line at the carburetor. Revolve the fuel line 180 degrees so that it is standing up straight and keep it that way by tightening the brass fitting in the sediment bowl. ADDED: I forgot to mention that just before you blow into the fuel line, you must turn the gas back on so that the forced air will go back up into the tank. Because the fuel line is straight up, no fuel will run out. Now put the open end of the fuel line in your mouth and blow as hard as you can into the end of the fuel line. You should initially meet with resistance, but then there will be a loud "WHOOSH!" from inside the gas tank, followed by gurgling. Keep blowing a few times before putting everything back together again. Doing this blows the congealed gunk inside the on/off valve back into the fuel supply. The engine will run better now at speed and have its power back. Of course, until the gas tank is cleaned properly, this gunk will eventually collect in the on/off valve again. Keep the tank fairly full to disperse the gunk so that it can't concentrate in a lower fuel level.

If these suggestions don't help, the problem is most likely not fuel or carb related. Then concentrate on the electrical and ignition systems.
Marshall

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

It had about 1/4 tank when I bought it. I put a fresh 1/2 tank in before the 5-6 mile drive a couple weeks ago.

I believe it is still positive ground 6 volt

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

try changing the condenser, that is easy, you just never know.
but
the ticking and the run issues may or may not be related.
the ticking can be a few things lifters adjustment, sticky valve, exhaust leak somewhere who knows?
a compression test will determine if it is a valve issue.

i think if it ran good and suddenly didn't i would investigate ignition first.

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

there are a few easy things to do while checking, if ignition is suspected.
-test for power at the points (point arm) with a test light (12v test light will work if it is a conventional bulb)
-if you have power there, put the coil wire close to a ground (something metal), open and close the points manually with a screwdriver or the test light probe. watch for spark at the coil wire. if no spark, either the points are dirty, or the coil may be bad.
-if you can make it spark by doing that. check that the points are opening on the high lobe of the distributer cam. make sure that distributer cam is securely screw down tight.
-if all that is working properly the only thing left on the ignition is to make sure it is timed. that does not usually change but check it.
you need to eliminate one item at a time. once you have determined that the ignition system is working correctly then move on to fuel system.

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

That could be. Except for lightbulbs the only spare parts that came with the car were a new manifold gasket and clamp. So somebody might have known that was a repair on the way

The car seems to have good fuel flow and has a secondary modern filter on the fuel line, so I doubt it's that, but I will try that tactic for the carb

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

I did change the condenser, but that didn't change anything. Ran a compression test just a few minutes ago and compression is a little low, but equal at all four cylinders

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

The modern fuel filter in the line may be clogged. They also restrict the fuel flow. The Model A is gravity feed whereas a modern car has a fuel pump.

The secondary fuel filter is a bandaid and may have been put on there by the previous owner to fix gunk coming down the fuel pipe.

You should contact the previous owner. They may have a good suggestion on what to check.

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

now back to the fuel system and carb.
my brothers A did the same sort of thing and what it turnout to be was the float valve stuck shut.
you can check stuff like that. shut off the fuel, take the bottom 1/2 of the carb off. push the float up see if the needle sticks.
if you have someone to help you have them turn on the fuel, hold the float up, no fuel should run out. let the float drop and make sure when that float drops that fuel runs out. you may what a pan under it.

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

Sounds like it could be starving for gas. The after market fuel filters are designed to run with a fuel pump for positive pressure. Take out the after market fuel filter and see how it runs. That is an easy first step...

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

guys will build motorcycle tanks and put a non-vented gas caps on. a few miles down the road the bike would die of fuel starvation.
i can't imagine this is what is happening . just thinking out loud.

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

I agree with Dick. pull the gas valve under the dash and make sure all is clean- if not add a pencil filter.

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

get rid of the secondary fuel filter!!!

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

you answered your own question! Messed around with adjustments!!

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

I didn't read everything in the posts. Try taking gas cap off as venting may be bad causing a vacuum. Disconnect fuel line at carb and turn inside valve on. Should have full gas flow for at least 30 second test at the carb. If that is alright you probably eliminated a fuel problem.

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

Remove the drain plug under the carburetor (not the bolt that holds the carb together). Doing it this way also tests the float valve. Have a jar ready to catch the gas.

When your helper open the gas shutoff, gas should come out like a giant taking a piss. If it is like a gerbil you have a problem.

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

My bad, should have written it that I did not mess around with the adjustments until AFTER the car stalled in the middle of the street

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

Philoso Friend has the right procedure. Use a big bucket so that you can make sure the flow is good for a reasonable amount of time. Do the test outdoors with a fire extinguisher handy.

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

Do you have a Model A friend nearby? If so see if you can temporarily borrow their distributor and carburetor and switch them out one at a time to see if you can rectify the problem. If one of them does then you know where the problem lies.

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

UPDATE:

So I've tested some of your helpful suggestions and a problem still remains, although it is driving better than a couple weeks ago.

It seems to be getting plenty of fuel into the carb. I pulled the drain plug and got a healthy gush. I've tested the coil and got a healthy blue spark. A compression test proved even compression.

I took it for a couple loops around the neighborhood, and it is still falling in and out of good running. I got it to idle well and shift up into third without trouble on the level road. However, it will jump back into its old ways, suck air in and struggle to get back into second.

The one thing it will consistently do is struggle on hills. It does not stall or cough like it is lacking fuel, but it starts to chug like a steam engine. I live in a hilly town and prior to these problems it had no problem climbing a hill in second.

The one thing I have noticed that I do not know the right answer to is, how much play is allowed in the various distributor components? I noticed the rotor and cam have some play to them and the whole distributor itself has a little play despite the screw being tightened down.

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

Who's the Singer of that tune?

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

The distributor shaft is supposed to have a little back and forth rotational play. That's normal. You just don't want side-to-side play, which would indicate worn shaft bushings and/or a worn shaft.
Marshall

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

After the 'gush', did the fuel keep flowing w/a good stream? Or did it peter out to a trickle?

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

The side hold down screw is one path to ground for the distributor , if the distributor is loose and moving it could be your problem ?! Other poor paths the time adjusting rod , the flexible cable that’s probably painted . The hold down screw is a special screw that fits in a groove in the distributor

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

Does your engine randomly do this or does it only do this when it's warmed up?

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

Any chance of you borrowing a known good distributor and carburetor as I suggested in post #20?

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

Also on secondary filters (and I agree with Gary, if you need that something else is the problem, dirty gas, dirty tank, that is a band aid fix) use a fuel filter designed for 'no pressure' fuel lines, a metal encased filter don't park a plastic bodied filter next door to that hot manifold.
Unless you have your insurance paid up:)

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

Motown, I have a friend that was having the same problems. It turned out to be timing. He was way too advanced. Although way too retarded can cause problems too. We re timed his car and that solved the problem.

To time the car, first set the points to 0.020 clearance when the points are at their maximum gap.

Turn the engine to top dead center (TDC) on #1 piston by inserting the pin at the cam gear cover. The pin will drop into a depression when the #1 piston is at TDC. Verify by taking the plug out at the #1 cylinder and observing that the piston is at TDC.

Move the timing lever to one notch down from the top. Remove the distributor top, housing, and rotor, and loosen the screw for the cam. Move the cam so that the points are just opening and the rotor will point to #1 cylinder and snug up the screw. Verify this by rotating the cam counter clockwise from the rest position which is as far clockwise as the cam will go. Make sure the screw is tight and put everything back together.

When driving the car move the timing lever to where the engine is running best. Use the hand throttle to set a constant speed. Start from a slight retarded position and advance the timing one notch at a time. The engine should pick up speed and power as you advance the timing. Do this until there is no improvement and then go back one notch. Remember this position as this is where you will be driving the car most of the time. You can retard it one notch for going up a grade and advance it one notch for driving on a level road at a constant speed.

Do not use the Nu-Rex wrench (Spelling ?) except to turn the cam.

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

That would be Daryl Hall and John Oates

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

I don't remember how long it ran, but I kept the shutoff open for probably somewhere between five and ten seconds

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

Well, I am hoping this is it. I needed to order some new parts and took a look at the new distributor screws and saw they have a little nubben on the end. Mine does not. Needless to say, one was ordered

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

I had borrowed a carb from a friend, but I could barely get the car to start with his on. I didn't want to mess with his, so I just gave it back.

I have a good carb on my sedan that I can try when I get the opportunity

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

Yes, try the good one you have on your sedan and if that doesn't help then try the distributor that you have on your sedan assuming it runs well.

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

UPDATE:

So, I went ahead and just bought a brand-new distributor and it seems to have done the trick (mostly). I did not properly time the new distributor because the Incredible Hulk installed the cam screw, but I went ahead and threw the new guy in with the first cylinder set and most of the problems have disappeared.

The car no longer struggles on hills, it no longer misses, it's a very consistent runner, but one small problem does remain. In order to operate smoothly I am constantly having to work the GAV... making the mix increasingly rich as it speeds up

Is timing the culprit? Maybe the GAV needle is out of whack? I just redid the manifold gasket Thursday, so I doubt it's an intake leak

Thanks

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

Sounds like you are winning.
However it doesn't sound as if you are confident in your ability to set the timing correctly. I would suggest ordering one of the NuRex timing wrenches and use it to set your timing. It may not get the timing set absolutely perfect as in other methods using test lights etc... but it gets timing really, really close.
Biggest things with using the wrench and setting timing is to make sure you are at top dead center using the timing pin. If you are having trouble finding the dimple in the timing gear just use a small short phillips screwdriver in place of the timing pin.
Also make sure that the arm that extends out from the back of the distributor touches each side of the slot when you move your timing lever fully in either direction. If it doesn't that has to be set right before going forward.
Be sure that the timing lever is then fully raised to its highest position and then using the NuRex wrench set the cam on the distributor and lock it in place.

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

I do have a NuRex wrench I have been using. I retimed the old distributor twice using it, and it certainly improved it from the initial problem. Fighting the clock for a Memorial Day tour, I decided it wouldn't hurt to have a bonafide backup that I will know has been properly maintained.

I am almost certain they do not time them in the factory, though, and the fact with the new one is the cam screw is just so dang tight I could not loosen it in order to use the wrench.

I drove the car about seven miles yesterday, and it's 99% improved. The tick I had is gone, the car has its power back, but I have never had to work the GAV so much driving mine or anyone else's Model A!!

Thank you for your time in replying!

Re: I'm Outta Touch, I'm Outta Time
 

I am plagued by my cam turning when I tighten the screw. My workaround is to set it at 10 deg BTDC and that compensates for the turning and it is spot on at 0 deg then when I finish.

My Stipe dizzy cam must be on my spare dizzy. That cam has parallel serrations on the bottom for grip, maybe I'll swap it over.