Non ethanol gas
 

Re: Non ethanol gas
 

Technically the ethanol is anti-knock at 110 octane by itself that is why its run in race cars with high compression. For non-ethanol fuels common "rocket fuel" additives back in the day were benzene, toluene and xylene which all are around 100-120 octane individually. When they were cheap guys would add a gallon of them to the tank of regular to make high-test in areas where it was not available. Now toluene is regulated and hard to find and xylene is over $25 a gallon so its just cheaper to buy premium from the pump rather than mix your own. The octane boosters in a small bottle are nothing more than benzene (naphtha) and a touch of xylene at a huge mark-up.

Re: Non ethanol gas
 

agreed as to previous post.

but to put it another way...

octane is added to gasoline to suppress knocking (detonation) in both ethanol and non-ethanol gasoline, AFAIK. however, the amount of octane added to base non-ethanol gasolines is greater than that added to base ethanol gasolines. most likely because ethanol alone has a pretty high octane rating.

Re: Non ethanol gas
 

Very informative replies, thank you gentlemen. However, they don’t address the basic question. The toxicity (just handling those chemicals) is well known, hence the regulation and pricing. Increasing the amount used to achieve the anti-detonation characteristics of fuel destroys (I think) the old style pre-ethanol carb and fuel pump kits. We also know what using ethanol fuel does to the pre-ethanol carbs, pumps and hosing

My belief the “true believers” having so much trouble with their fuel systems is because they refuse to upgrade to 30R7 hosing and buying rebuild kits (fuel pumps and carbs) that are ethanol compliant.

How I know; when I bought the 49 40 years ago drove it home and ran great. Soon thereafter I started having fuel issues. Crap in the carb and a destroyed fuel pump. After a skull session with the local parts guy, he put me onto the idea my entire fuel system needed an upgrade to ethanol compliant kits and cleaning out the fuel tank. Problems solved and been running whatever came out of the local gas pumps since.

My story and I'm sticking to it
:D

Re: Non ethanol gas
 

sounds reasonable to me! :)

i didn't go to any great lengths in updating my fueling system, but i did replace most of it from the firewall forward. the pump was a mess and i replaced that along with the carb, but i, for the most part, attributed the damage and failures to age. but i'm ready to entertain the possibility that it was all due to the ethanol. ...if figure i can never have too many things to blame my troubles on. ha

Re: Non ethanol gas
 

Allow me to weigh in here with a question.

When I was rebuilding my 1935 21 stud 85HP a few years back... I read that there were three components that I needed to upgrade so that I could use either Ethanol or pure gasoline. I made these upgrades as follows:

[The parts I replaced with ethanol resistant ones were]
#1 - the flexible hose that connects the metal fuel line to the mechanical fuel pump,
#2 - the mechanical fuel pump diaphragm,
#3 - my Holley Model 94 carburetor accelerator pump.

Even with these upgrades I have used nothing but pure gasoline... so here is my question. Are my upgrades sufficient for the use of ethanol and pros and cons of ethanol use over pure?

Thanks all!

Re: Non ethanol gas
 

Re: Non ethanol gas
 

Re: Non ethanol gas
 

Yes... the original tank was was beyond repair... so replaced it with a new one :) Thanks!

Re: Non ethanol gas
 

I've taken many carb apart and seen the destruction Ethanol does if left over the winter or longer. There is a reson they only sell non Ethanol at marinas. Take a junk carb and fill the bowl wth Ethanol then put it away somewhere safe for 4 to 6 months and pull it apart. I think you will be amazed. Exhaust is another isue. Did you ever notice all the water trickeling out of the car in front of yous tail pipe at the stoplight ? That a result of Ethanol and is a major polution going down the storm drains. It also causes you exaust to rot out much sooner. There are many articles writen about the good and bad effects of Ethanol over the years and I choose not to run it in my vintage or small engines. Tim

Re: Non ethanol gas
 

I run any any old pump gas all summer, but I do try to buy pure gas on the last few fill ups before winter. Never use ethanol in the chain saws.

Re: Non ethanol gas
 

I run "recreation fuel"(no ethanol) in my '34 and '57 and I have no fuel problems. Fuel is more $$ but vehicles run GREAT. Get that "corn " out of the fuel!!!

Re: Non ethanol gas
 

Where does one buy "recreation fuel"?

Re: Non ethanol gas
 

I'M in sc most gas stations sell it at the pumps along with the other junk.

Re: Non ethanol gas
 

My old engines run fine on ethanol until the summer heat hits. I can see the gas boiling in the sight glasses and fuel pump bowls. It doesn't happen with non ethanol.

I've had people tell me it's bull, but my carbureted vehicles stall in traffic and won't restart when the summer temps hit and yet they run all season without trouble when they have non ethanol. They are not overheating either. Same for my daughter's 66 Mustang. She quit driving it in the summer. Now we have non ethanol gas locally and that's what we run for our carbureted engines.

Both ethanol and non ethanol turn to crud after sitting in fuel bowls if your engine isn't run in a long time, but ethanol gas sure does some damage. Major corrosion. Non ethanol crud is more like varnish and cleans up with carb cleaner.

So as long as I have non ethanol gas available for my old carbureted engines, I will run it.

Re: Non ethanol gas
 

I believe all Buc-ees locations sell it...pure gasoline; no ethanol.

Re: Non ethanol gas
 

I’m fortunate to have Non-ethanol at a couple of places close to me. All I run in my ‘50…..Mark

Re: Non ethanol gas
 

It will vary by local practice but outdoor power users - boaters and off road equipment in particular - is a good place to start.

Re: Non ethanol gas
 

#4 - tank to firewall fuel line (rust-out)
#5 - fiber fuel pump valves (sticky)
#6 - fiber carb needle valves (sticky)
#7 - 4 oz of Stabyl Marine in every tank (puts a layer of oil atop the fuel to prevent absorption of moisture)

Re: Non ethanol gas
 

our local marina sells non-ethanol ga$ to the public. you can drive to the Marina. no need to sail in or anything. just bring your 10 gallon can, walk into the harbor masters office and tell them you want some gasoline. a pleasant maintenance man will soon arrive and take you to the pumps and you can buy as much gas as you want at about 5-6 bucks a gallon. :)

Re: Non ethanol gas
 

Why doesn't more drivers know about this?

I take a printout with me for every state that I drive my old Ford in.

https://www.pure-gas.org/

Re: Non ethanol gas
 

Fortunately there's a place near me that sells 91 no alcohol.
But if you can find a place that has marine gas, it's the same, no alcohol.

Re: Non ethanol gas
 

I have an ethanol free gas station 2 miles from my house. I use it in all the things that sit around like Stihl leaf blower, chain saw, hedge trimmer and all 5 of my old fords and 2 Brand X cars. Ethanol has far less energy in it than gasoline and it absorbs moisture out of the air. When I put the ethanol free in my 2023 F150, I get 2 mpg more while normal driving proving there is less energy in the ethanol.

Re: Non ethanol gas
 

All modern gasoline has benzen, toluene, and xylene in it. Althought the benzene has been legislated out and refiners remove it intentionally. One major refining process is catalytic reforming to convert the cyclohexane in distilled naphtha to BTX. The 65 octane naphtha is converted to 95-105 octane reformate. Have you heard of chevron's advert of "our gas has platformate"? Yup, chevron's version of catalytic reforming is called platforming and makes platformate(yield of 75%). Refinery I worked in had 1/3 of capacity in reforming. 32 years as chemical engineer in XOM refinery.

Re: Non ethanol gas
 

Our EFV8 Regional Group once had an active member who was a Chemical Engineer for a refinery. A likable guy till the subject came to Ethanol in our old Fords. Seems he had taken a personal role in developing his companies Ethanol products and was proud of his work. Poor guy would almost have a heart attack in defense of Ethanol. I won't name him, but here's a hint: A close relative of his had gained fame on Iwo Jima.

Re: Non ethanol gas
 

Nice to hear from someone in the industry. Nearly all my graduate chemistry was focused on materials longevity and identification, so I only know enough about gasoline and the science behind it to be a dangerous hobbyist. The big brain folks certainly can do some amazing stuff with those molecules in the labs.

Re: Non ethanol gas
 

all gasolines, the contents thereof, including octane ratings and ethanol percentages, are regulated by our federal government for defense department reasons. think about it. we can't have superior and inferior gasolines for use by the military in the event of a call to arms, foreign or domestic. and you can bet your bottom dollar that the military doesn't scrimp on quality gasoline for their vehicles. meaning that gasoline, formulated and quality controlled by the government, drawn straight from privately owned oil company storage tanks, and has had nothing added to it by any oil company, is the best.

and if any particular brand of gasoline wants to add something to the gasoline so as to legally permit their multi-hundred million dollar advertising departments with budgets amounting to, on average, about two to three ($200,000,000-$300,000,000) million per oil company per year, to claim superiority is accomplished by THEN tossing in some kind of mumbo-jumbo additive. it's as simple as that.

in the end, it's all the same gasoline with various government mandated octane ratings and ethanol percentages. and then the premium oil companies top it off with their special advertising sauce from their tanks. but the truth is that it simply can't make it better, for if it was the military would have it in their base gasoline formulation to begin with. IOW, the special sauce simply cannot make it better than the government's formulation. as the military would require it in the base gasoline to begin with!

and BTW, fun fact WRT how much our government is willing to pay for the best in military equipment and it's performance...

the price of ONE, repeat ONE, of the best bombers (although it doesn't burn gasoline) in the U.S. Air Force, the B-21, is about $700,000,000.00 dollars. so the chances that the government formulated base gasoline (i.e. the cheap stuff at the discount gas stations) is not the very best available, is practically nil. :)

Re: Non ethanol gas
 

When we had our '41 ford with a sbf 302 i replaced all the fuel lines with ethanol resistant hose. We put 200k+ miles on it and never had any problems listed in above posts. Couple times i pulled the top off the carb to check condition. Not a speck of damage. The ca wouldr sit all winter with whatever gas was left from summer. Jump in, pump it twice and would fire right up