Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

35 Tudor Sedan. Depending on my clutch technique, I sometimes have some minor chatter when starting out, more so in reverse. A friend suggested that I need to adjust the ant-chatter rods. I looked at the rods and they appear to be fixed with an eyelet at the rear X frame adjustment and at the front they attach to the bell housing with a ridge on the rod and a castellated nut. I don't see any accommodation for an adjustment. They don't appear to be loose. Am I missing something?

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

Some minor clutch chatter might be normal. What is the condition of your clutch and flywheel surface? Do you have hot spots on your flywheel surface? Does the clutch disk have oil on it?

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

Dennis .... There is no specific adjustment, as such, but they certainly can be adjusted to hold different, directional tension on the engine/trans assembly. I'll show the stock type set-up BELOW, just for general principles. The second picture is actually a NON-STOCK set-up shown on an 8BA engine which was put into an earlier chassis. The second set-up shows more-clearly how you could possibly bias the tension in one direction or the other, or pre-load the engine/trans assembly in one direction or another.


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...1&d=1568307754


The second picture shows how you could pre-load the rods to push (or pull) against the stops using the two lock nuts on either side of engine. Not sure it would do any good, though. I've never played with this situation.


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...0&d=1296572377


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...9&d=1296572377


As Seth noted in post #2, a lot of times what you have is caused by a yucky flywheel surface.


Coop

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Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

There is no adjustment on a stock rod. TIGHT is the proper "torque".

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

Since it looks like you will be pulling the transmission to access the clutch and flywheel, I would check the u joint for wear. Excessive play in the driveline can also contribute to chatter.

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

Also, check the motor and transmission mounts. I know it's not quite the same, but when I had a chatter problem in my '51 about 20 years ago, I had the flywheel resurfaced and installed a new pressure plate and disc. It didn't help much. Replacing the motor mounts made it smooth as silk.

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

I found I can reduce clutch chatter by changing my driving habits. Learned to engage the clutch quicker than with other cars. Flatheads have lots of low-end torque; it's harder to stall a flathead. I learned to keep the RPMs down until clutch is engaged, then give it gas.

Also, I have read that old stiff engine mounts (or loose mounts) can exacerbate clutch chatter.

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

Here's a shot of a clutch you see the three arms they need to be in perfect adjustment .A lot of aftermarket clutches (non Ford ) use very low grade iron on these arms result rapid ware on the pivots , they are not lubed so quality is essential ,Ted

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

Ted has the CORRECT solution.

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

Check out this tread about clutch "fingers" : https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...highlight=shim.

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

Thank you all for your responses. My rods are as depicted in Coop's first picture - stock and properly fastened. I think my technique is part of it, as it happens most often when starting up hill or when the clutch is slipped more. It's not horrible but I thought I would investigate. The front motor mounts appear tight but with some age checking in the rubber. The transmission support is dirty and hard to see clearly, but I suspect it is the same age as the front mounts. At this point it is not serious enough to pull the transmission but, when and if that day comes, I will carefully inspect the flywheel, clutch plate, pressure plate, finger heights, bearings, and mounts. My education continues!

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

Too soft motor and trans mounts can also contribute to chatter, cinch them down tight. As Kube said, the engine stay rods need to be tight.

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

if transmission mounts are had to see from alot of oil and crud probably mount pucks are spongy. you know what constant oil soaked rubber is like. some time i shopuld check mine now that i'm reminded. iv'e had to adjust my accelerator/clutch action at times aswell. iv'e gotten a little more tension on the stay rods last spring. thought about installing new mounts on eng. and trans. i would assume motor and trans tail need to be jacked up together? Tom.

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

I would think you could loosen all 4 engine and trans mount bolts, even take nuts off one end, and replace that ends mounts, reinstall bolts and nut but leave loose, then replace the other end, and when all 4 have mounts have been swapped out, chinch them down. Shouldn't have to raise either end up too much.

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

An old time service trick that was performed on vintage vehicles to minimize/eliminate clutch chatter, generally the result of oil on the clutch, was to pull the vehicle up to a telephone pole with the front bumper touching the pole, then with the trans in high gear slowly accelerate the engine as the clutch was slowly released. When the slipping clutch started to lightly smoke, fully disengage the clutch.
Of course the procedure was noted on the service ticket as 'adjust clutch'.
Been there done that!!

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

Actually, when I had the problem with my '51, this was the first thing I tried, I now believe it's an "old wives tale" that has no credibility. I would concentrate on the motor and transmission mounts.

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

Like many of the old-time 'shade-tree mechanic fixes', slipping the clutch against a telephone pole/tree solved nothing, which generally put a band-aid on the the real problem.

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

I want to temporarily remove the anti chatter rods on my 1940 for cleaning and repainting however they are attached to the frame with FEMALE square headed bolts. A 3/8" ratchet is to big and a 1/4" is too small. Any advise?

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

Sacrifice a 3/8" short extension or 1/2" to 3/8" adapter. Measure the hole and grind the 3/8" extension or adapter to fit. Now you have a new tool for your box :-)

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

I believe it is a 5/16 " square opening.

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

https://www.grainger.com/product/GRE...-Socket-51PH15

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

I hope most of you know what the purpose of the engine stay rods is. Ford engineers realized that with the transverse rear spring the torque tube style rear end, when you begin to move forward, the rear end rocks slightly forward pushes forward on the transmission and thus the engine. To prevent this action, they put the engine stay rods on that bolt solid to the frame and engine block. They have nothing to do with preventing clutch chatter. When Ford went to an open driveline with 2 parallel rear springs there was no longer any need for them. Someone somewhere thought they were to prevent clutch chatter and the myth began.

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

Great explanation, Deuce!...;)

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

Spot on my dear friend. spot on!

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

That is correct.

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

Very true. I think the term was invented by the first guy that left them out after an engine swap. Hurst even offered some pre-load doohickies that were supposed to substitute for them with their engine mount kits for early Fords. They didn't.

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

i used a piece of key stock to fit and an open end wrench.

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

What MARKO said plus heat, they are tight.
kurt

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

Drain plug 8mm and 5/16" square

https://tinyurl.com/bdmjwedk

https://tinyurl.com/2868tpy3

https://bcfasteners.com/shop/jet-h37...n-plug-socket/

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

At those prices, I think "Kube" is right; make your own.

The icing on the cake is that Amazon lists a 3/8" drive 3/8" square drain plug socket for $11.82.:eek:

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

Here's some info. on aftermarket anti-chatter rods.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...ds+aftermarket

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

they have nothing to do with clutch chater they are eng stay rods on a torque tube drive they hold the eng in place as the rear pusheses the car

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum/vi...ywords=chatter

"I agree with 42. All of the old Fords I've owned had some clutch chatter, some more than others. The Ford drive line went basically unchanged from the beginning thru 1948, mostly due to Henry's rigid opposition to change. As said, the problem arises as the rear axle pushes forward on the torque tube, leaving the motor mounts to absorb the thrust. [Pulls when gong into reverse and pushes when going forward] It is tempting to blame the clutch, itself, for the problem, but there are other factors to consider. The rear spring must be intact, with clips in place, and firmly attached to the crossmember. The spring shackles must have pins with little or no play. The rear hubs must be tight on the tapers. If you hear a "clunk" as you drive, check them. The u-joint housing must be tightened over the ball, with the cork seals in place. Lastly, the clutch release linkage and clutch housing bushings must be free of play. One end is attached to the frame, with the other end at the release shaft thru the bell housing. Any movement of the drive train is magnified by the linkage. The arm on the release shaft moves a fraction of the pedal travel, and as the engine moves on its mounts, this is translated into an irregular operation of the pressure plate, causing much of the "shudder". Lots of remedies have been tried. I've attached one such. None will remove all the problem, but you can reduce it to a tolerable level."

"One approach that I didn't include in my previous post is that sometimes the chatter, particularly if severe, can be reduced by placing the car on sturdy stands with all four wheels off the ground, then loosening the bolts that attach the transmission to the engine. After starting the engine and placing the transmission in gear, let it run a bit, work the clutch a few times, then cinch down the bolts. This will often reduce any mismatch between the center line of the transmission and the pilot bearing in the flywheel. Just be very careful when working under a car on stands, particularly when it is running. I prefer to do it with the car on a hoist in the shop, of course."

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showp...0&postcount=22

"The torque tube design was primarily to function well in forward motion. When you operate the vehicle in reverse gear, the rear axle tries to pull the cup of the tube away from the ball cover of the transmission. It can't move a lot unless there is wear on the components. The chatter rods weren't designed to help hold anything but the engine & transmission. The chatter might be the tube against the ball cover or as was said, a U-joint used to moving in forward motion may not work as well in reverse motion.

The same may hold true for the clutch plate & cover that are worn more with forward lock up but not so much with reverse motion. Wear patterns on flywheels & clutch plates can be pretty interesting to look at depending on how easy or hard the operator is on them."

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showp...3&postcount=23

"You can chatter about the steady rods importance but most likely the chatter is due to the incorrect pedal throw or poor clutch pedal adjustment. If you have changed the engine combination , trans combination or made a pedal arrangement that does not use the parts that were designed for the vehicle, the pedal ratio or free play adjustment is incorrect. Second place to look has been brought up and that is poor or loose rear engine mount cushions."

AI generated response, [URL=https://tinyurl.com/msdr9ete[/URL]

"Ford employed this [transverse springs with torque tube] design in its vehicles up through 1948, primarily due to the use of transverse leaf springs that could not withstand the forward thrust forces generated during acceleration.
The system was later abandoned with the introduction of the "new Ford" in 1948, which adopted a Hotchkiss-type rear axle with parallel springs at the rear and independent coils at the front.
Other manufacturers, including Buick, Nash, American Motors (AMC), and later high-performance vehicles like the Porsche 924, 928, and C5/C6 Corvettes, also used variations of the torque tube design."

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

back in the day when we did a clutch on a ford we always used a new clutch from ford, if you wanted chatter you bought a rebuilt.i have five fords none have chatter if i do a clutch today on an old ford i send it to fort whyne clutch co & have it rebuil dont buy a new one from them all the new clutches today are from china

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

I thought someone here said Ft. Wayne wasn't doing clutches anymore, or the company was gone or bought out. Any recent info?

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

https://fortwayneclutch.com/
https://external-content.duckduckgo....c37&ipo=images
Specializing in clutch & driveline for all makes & models of auto, truck, tractor, agricultural, antique, high performance, industrial, obsolete!

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

Last time I talked to them was 3 or 4 years ago and they weren't taking 8BA clutch cores and wanted to sell me a new one made by "some guy named Wang Fu" (their words). I'd ask a few pointed questions before dealing with them.

I went elsewhere.

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

Going elsewhere was a wise decision. Ft. Wayne was "the place" for many, many years. Not any longer.
I would not consider anything from them at this point.

Re: Adjusting Anti-Chatter Rods
 

I took a 3/8 square 3/8 extension and ground it down to 5/16 square to remove my anti-chatter rods.