Do I I need a new starter?
 

20 Years ago I converted my 8BA to 12V but kept using
the 1940 6V starter. Today I pressed the starter button and engine didn't crank over on the first tap of the starter button like it always. Tried again and all I get is a "whirring sound" like an electric motor is running. Engine doesn't crank over.
Does this mean I need a new starter Bendix/spring?
Are the new high torque starters worth the money or should I
convert the old starter to 12V like Fordbarner Ed Pitts did in this thread?
All ideas welcome.
http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...2+volt+starter

Re: Do I I need a new starter?
 

Years ago I ran a 6V flathead starter on 12V that resulted in harsh ring gear engagement. I started to see ring gear damage, so had the starter rebuilt for 12 V. Bendix engagement is now much less aggressive and starter looks and sounds like it should. Cost of rebuilding vs a new high torque may be a toss up, but rebuilding the stock starter is better imo, especially if you have a good rebuilder in your area.

Re: Do I I need a new starter?
 

Exactly - and they can be hard to find. We do have a good one here in Columbus, OH

Also, I like the original Bendix style setup - not the modern repop ones. I am still running a 6V starter - just rebuilt it myself as my nasty engine coughed back and bent the damn armature shaft. Argggggggggh. I did find/buy a NOS armature shaft - to keep in my stash in case I do it again! LOL

Re: Do I I need a new starter?
 

Re: Do I I need a new starter?
 

Fordy, here is a post that covered this issue. Ed

Here is a post from Ronnie with a comment from me. This works and is a lot cheaper than 185 bucks. Ed

"Take your flathead starter apart. Keep the long through-bolts and end plate with the armature and bendix. Turn the armature if required. Don't under-cut the copper bars on armature. Use the starter from 332, 352, 360, 390 or 406 c.i. Ford FE engines as the conversion starter. Disassemble the FE starter. Keep the end plate with brushes and case with field coils. Check the bushing in the end plate and replace if necessary. The wire size and number of windings on the FE and flathead armatures and they are the same.

Now is also a good time to install new brushes. Install the flathead armature into the FE case. Install the FE end plate with brushes. Put long through-bolts in starter.

You now have a flathead starter capable of cranking an engine of 300 to 400 c.i. ,up to11 to 1 compression ratio. The finished starter looks like the flathead starter and you did it yourself."

This works. I have done this for two 12 volt starter conversions. On the last one I got a rebuilt starter from O'Rileys to use the case. It was for a 1964 Ford Galaxie; 390 cu in. engine. The part # is 03-0214 and the line is ULT. Cost was $39.99 plus 20 bucks for the core. So, for 60 bucks, you can have a 12 volt starter that works great.
Ed

Re: Do I I need a new starter?
 

Here is the starter using the later FE case. Ed

Re: Do I I need a new starter?
 

Here is a side by side. You take out the bottom one out of the FE case and use the top one out of your 6 volt starter.

Re: Do I I need a new starter?
 

Re: Do I I need a new starter?
 

It could be that your starter drive just has congealed oil on it, that cleaning will fix----or a bendix spring bolt broke, most starters don't come with the drive, the whir means that the starter is probably working

Re: Do I I need a new starter?
 

Re: Do I I need a new starter?
 

Jim, that one should work. All you are using is the case. Just responded to your PM's. Ed

Re: Do I I need a new starter?
 

Sounds like the Bendix spring broke. Had the same adventure not long ago. You can get just the spring or the entire Bendix unit.
Like Kurt said, if it spinning it's probably just a Bendix issue.
Let us know what you find.

Re: Do I I need a new starter?
 

C&G has about any starter part you need, my spring broke and had the same
issue as you.

Re: Do I I need a new starter?
 

Re: Do I I need a new starter?
 

A similar thing happene to me. Starter would spin, engine wouldn't crank. The findings were, someone used an incorrect bolt on the bendix and reused the lock. The bolt wound up falling out and the bendix was just spinning on the shaft.

Re: Do I I need a new starter?
 

When this happened to me I replaced the starter spring and everything is fine.

Re: Do I I need a new starter?
 

I broke the spring on my 40 and Model A years ago, I replaced them with the modern torpedo style drive, bullet proof, only 25 bucks, a little harder to install to the 8BA engine,you have to do some grinding to make it fit. Walt

Re: Do I I need a new starter?
 

I converted my 8BA starters to 12V using a Ford Y Block starter on one and a FE starter on the other years ago. Both work great. When my Bendix spring broke I installed a new torpedo style drive. Been working for 5 years now with no problems. As Walt said a little grinding had to be done but, to me, well worth it.

Re: Do I I need a new starter?
 

Where can i get the torpedo drive? Thanks, jack

Re: Do I I need a new starter?
 

Now, THAT'S a nice piece of tech advice. Brilliant.

While on the subject, my buddy did a 12V conversion about 15 years ago and has replaced about 4 Bendix springs since. They last a while but eventually snap from the shock.

Re: Do I I need a new starter?
 

What can I say 1950 F6 changed to 12 vt. generator in 1960. This is 2016 Dec 11.
same 6vt starter never been touched. Just got serviced yesteday, its a sander and who knows what mother nature will throw at us.

Re: Do I I need a new starter?
 

I guess I am not under standing, Ronnie says just replace the flathead starter case with a FE case, keep flathead armature and front end cap with long bolts. What makes it more power? they claim Ford uses the same size wire and number of windings are the same what gives them more power.

Re: Do I I need a new starter?
 

It's about the field coils and I'd say the windings are different. You can do essentially the same thing by finding a set of 12V field coils and swapping them into your 6V case.

The problem with putting 12 volts into a 6V starter is that it makes the starter too powerful. Swapping field coils tones it down a bit.

I'm impressed because you can find an FE Starter through any auto parts store a lot easier than finding a set of 55 year old 12V field coils.

Re: Do I I need a new starter?
 

i went on a mission today for an fe starter for the 12 volt case. first two stops all starters had a shorter case, unknown application, friends junk piles. next looked at an old motors manual and saw only that fe starters all had that "half a potato" can on the side with the magnetic switch, not the one either. last stop was an old junk yard that also told me all fe starters have the "potato" on the side. finally we went to his junk pile and found two without the potato, and with the long shaft for the bendix. y block, or early fe i dont know, but i have two here now. will report back when its spinning!

Re: Do I I need a new starter?
 

You are also in for a "turd" of a job removing the field coils as it is easier said than done.Those nasty bolts that hold the fields in is a special item that refuses to come out easily. Bin there done that won't be easy for a back yarder at all.Not only that you have to remove 2 sets and install one set.But if you want to punish yourself feel free. :D

R

Re: Do I I need a new starter?
 

Agreed. Ford made a special tool for removing those ridiculous retaining plugs. Could have used hex heads, but NOOOOOOOOO!

Re: Do I I need a new starter?
 

well i got two good 12 volt starters now, thats a great trick, thanks for the tip. and yes, to remove those bolts to change the coils would be a lot more of a project. i once welded a nut to the bolts to remove them.

Re: Do I I need a new starter?
 

I did the FE conversion on my 59A/B. It was easy and the cost of the donor starter was only $45. I thought I would replace the Bendix as long as I had it out. Starter worked fine for about six months and then sheared the collar on the POS Bendix replacement. Replaced the Bendix with the modern torpedo type and that has held up so far (one year).