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Les Andrews books concerning errors within... Les Andrews Books have been out for a few LONG years now. There have been reported of a few to many mistakes within each of the three volumns.
There have been reports to "throw the book away"...NO WAY...These books are to valuable of an asset to the Model A community...This is not my intention...My intention is that there is a lot of complaining about them because of mistakes...OK THEN...lets list them and get Les's opinion on them and settle this once and for all so the newbies coming into the hobby won't, for a better word, screw up on their intitial restoration. If this is the case, then I will start a thread concerning these mistakes and let's see just how many of us respond and let's see if Les can comment on them and issue out an eratta sheet correcting the errors. Some of you have made lists of them...let's see them. You are right, nothing will get done about this issue if we as a group don't step up to the plate and do something about it...complaining is not going to get us anywhere. So with that, let's step up to the plate, quit complaining, and post your found error or errors if any at all and quit complaining. Anybody????? I will run this for a week...you know..."bttt" (back to the top)...and see just where it get's us. Pluck |
Re: Les Andrews books concerning errors within... The Oil Pan Torque says 20 Ft LBS!
20 inch pounds maybe at best is more realistic. I prefer to tighten just snug. One handed with short ratchet. |
Re: Les Andrews books concerning errors within... Good idea. I hope this thread gets a lot of responses.
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One down...How many more? Pluck |
Re: Les Andrews books concerning errors within... Don' have the book handy, it's out in the shop, but there's the oft quoted one about the wrong torque on the oil pan bolts. IIRC Les says 20 ft-lbs and I understand that it should be 20 in-lbs.
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Re: Les Andrews books concerning errors within... Thanks for starting this thread Steve. It will really help the New guys (ME) and the Old (ME again, but not to Model A's). I am going to make notations in my book as members post the errors.
There are a couple of things in the book that I questioned, I just can't remember what they are right now... :confused::confused: |
Re: Les Andrews books concerning errors within... Cutting off the motor mount at the angle and only using the section for the frame. I know that some of the repops are/were too thick in that area, but they can still be used without cutting them off. Better choice would be to buy the repop that is made close to the correct thickness. Rod
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Two down... Pluck |
Re: Les Andrews books concerning errors within... i dont have the book in front of me right now but wasnt there a discrepancy about the lengths of the brake rods?
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Re: Les Andrews books concerning errors within... Would it help to mention the page the error is on also?
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Re: Les Andrews books concerning errors within... Steering sector shaft size is wrong.
The number has moved over in to the Bratton's catalog. I think the biggest weakness of his book is a lack of dimensions. For example, determining the fit of a tranny gear to the spline shaft. As I recall he states put some oil on the shaft and let it slide down. If it goes down fast then it is worn too much. I had a shaft and a gear where it went down fast but it only had about .001 or .002" of wear total when measured. I know there were some other things. I started writing details as I found them at one point. The problem is I do not need to reference the book much these days. I have other sources. His illustrations are wonderful and it is absolutely a must have for your library, but as with all the books you need to check the numbers. |
Re: Les Andrews books concerning errors within... Quote:
Pluck |
Re: Les Andrews books concerning errors within... Quote:
Pluck |
Re: Les Andrews books concerning errors within... Quote:
Pluck |
Re: Les Andrews books concerning errors within... Steve,
Les's book has really helped me in working on my Model A and others in our club as has this forum. I have tried to follow the cotter pin usage chart in Appendix A-3 and I think the Front Brake Plate Assembly should take 8 cotter pins(4 each side) even though my copy of the book says 3. I am so glad Les took the time to make this manual for guys like me. Jerry |
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Re: Les Andrews books concerning errors within... This thread can be very useful, but if you post an error include the Title of the Manual, and which printing the error is in and the page.
Les Andrews has published the following manuals: Model A Ford Mechanics Manual Volume 1 Model A Ford Mechanics Manual Volume 2 Model A Ford Trouble Shooting and Diagnostics The Service Bulletin for April 1928 page 239 notes the toe in should be set at 3/16" to 1/4" and was changed in the Service Bulletin for Sept 1928 page 282 to 1/16" + or - 1/32". I have a First printing Model A Ford Mechanics Manual Volume 1 and on page 2-19 the toe in is noted at 3/16 + or - 1/16. I also have a 2nd printing Model A Ford Mechanics Manual Volume 1 and on page 2-19 the toe in is noted 1/16 + or - 1/32 which is correct per the Service bulletins for Sept 1928 page 282. |
Re: Les Andrews books concerning errors within... Jerry, I do not take this as a chance to beat up on the book or Les personally. Almost every technical book has an error or two, most way more than two. Even the Crown and Barrett books I use every day there are errors and as they are found by someone and reported to the companies we get updates to our manuals. Even I have found errors and reported them and they went up the chain and were corrected. Info is forever changing that is one thing that is constant. We received a shipment of 15 new forklifts last week and although they are the same as the 5 we received last year we have encountered new problems over the weekend. I am sure new info will be generated from whatever we find the problem to be. So far it is eluding us. Rod
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Re: Les Andrews books concerning errors within... Les Andrews has written the most comprehensive and definitive book ever written about the Model A Ford. His mechanics handbook has aided many Model A enthusiasts. The few errors in the book that I have noticed are so minor that they will not lead anyone down the wrong path. There are some areas where he could have provided more detail. This is where others can contribute, rather than detract. Rather than pick Les’ work apart, time could be better spent writing technical articles that compliment and add more information to his articles.
Tom Endy |
Re: Les Andrews books concerning errors within... Well said, Tom.
I think it's a bad idea to critique Les' books. There are sections that are purposely left a little ambiguous because there are things that are just common sense. I find many areas in the book that are well detailed. Larry |
Re: Les Andrews books concerning errors within... Tom Endy pretty much sum this up for me.
To supplement Les' work I have cross referenced any and all articles from "the Restorer" onto the index of Les' publications. This gave me not only the technical application, but also the hands on work, detailed colored photos and an approach from another knowledgeable source. But, darn I still bang my knuckles. |
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Personally I don't see this thread as "picking apart Les' work" but preventing someone from making a mistake. |
Re: Les Andrews books concerning errors within... His Vol 1 got me started in model A's in 2008. Valuable information. I think if you use the book and gain experience you will recognize small discrepancies.
John |
Re: Les Andrews books concerning errors within... We all agree that the Andrews book is by far the best book available for Model A owners regardless of how experienced they are as a motor mechanic. I'm sure that Steve Plucker did not start this thread in order to "pick apart Les Andrews Book"
I encourage all to contribute to this thread in the spirit in which it was started. |
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Bill |
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I seem to remember an old saying that goes, If sense was common everyone would have some. |
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Re: Les Andrews books concerning errors within... The oil pan torque is in vol 1 page 1-146 paragraph 5 on left side of page.
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Pluck's concept is most helpful to newer owners like me who have bought these manuals and rely on them for instruction. Let's all contribute in the spirit with which he initiated the thread, i.e. With respect for Les and each other, and by making Steve's job as easy as possible (be specific about the issue when you decide to post, provide page numbers, confine it to issues that CAN be resolved, don't dilute the discussion with unrelated anecdotes!). Good luck, Pluck. I'm looking forward to the outcome and if you'd like someone to help collate and present the results in a form that can be made available to download, I'm happy to assist. I generally only "take" from this forum because of my limited experience. |
Re: Les Andrews books concerning errors within... Listing errors in Les' books: where do I start???
many diagrams are back to front like anything to do with the steering. Levers shown on diagrams are nothing like what is fitted. (only one has a ball on the end) Pictures of the 2 tooth steering box show the Steering shaft end play adjusting bolt on top of the steering box. It is on the side. Clockwise and anticlockwise are confused in his instructions on adjusting the worm backlash. He does not mention checking that the oil rings are the right way up (Yes, there is a top and a bottom side to them) One thing he does get right is to have the oil scoop on the con rods facing the cam shaft. Parts suppliers tell you to have it face the passenger's side of the car WRONG I could go on and on and on. Many of the errors are to with the fact that he knows diddley squat about RHD Model As, thus rendering his books of limited value unless the user is really on his toes and makes allowances. I'll stop now but there are plenty of other instances, besides, my spleen is feeling better already.:D |
Re: Les Andrews books concerning errors within... Working on my brakes the other day, I found the brake adjuster wedge to be 3/4 socket, not the 5/8" indicated twice in the book. YET, I question whether there really ARE 5/8" nuts on some of them... we know things were changed along the way in production and we know there are tons of aftermarket items.
As a newbie of only 8 years, I for one, would not have known NOT to torque the pan bolts to 20 ft lbs. So that is an obvious change that should be made. However, there could also be cross reference pages that indicate the obvious or needed changes (as in a separate list somewhere), whether Les revises his books or not. Just because he might publish a new version with updates doesn't mean I will go out and buy it. To me, the books are invaluable, AS IS THIS FORUM. We are all the mechanic in charge so we have to take all the information as we find it. Thanks Pluck. JackD |
Re: Les Andrews books concerning errors within... In "Model A Ford Mechanics Manual Volume 1" on page 1-17, and in the specifications at the back, it says 2 1/4 pints of gear oil for the rear axle. correct me if'n I'm wrong, but methinks it should be 1 1/2 pints.
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Re: Les Andrews books concerning errors within... katy I just fill the gear case and the rear end until it starts running back out of the filler opening. I don't pay much attention to the amount your supposed to use, maybe I should! But in 40 years of Model A's never have.
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Re: Les Andrews books concerning errors within... Quote:
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Re: Les Andrews books concerning errors within... So far there are 14 concerns, issues.
Pluck |
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Re: Les Andrews books concerning errors within... Nothing wrong with per review, there is not an author out there who is unhappy about folks helpling to make their books even better
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transmission ::: 1 pint differential ::::: 1 1/2 pints steering gear ::::7 3/4 ounces 7 tooth 4 1/2 ounce 2 tooth 2 quarts total will do the diff , trans and steering box |
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