"bud" anyone?

[larry harding]

31 pickup....a short while back I put up a post about a second cross channel in my pickup floor. it is about 2 " wide and made like the front channel, not like the wide repop sold by the suppliers....no such thing, must have been a farmer repair etc. a few days later I posted about the front header brackets that just didn't fit. I thought they had been made wrong and talked to the supplier who didn't have an answer, but gave me the number for the guy who makes the bracket who is a very nice and helpful guy at first he didn't know what was happening, but as we talked he said he had only ran into this problem once before and here is what I learned.... evidently the last few months of 31 pickup production the cabs were made by bud (whoever that is) and there were a few differences between the ford cab and the bud cab. at this tine I am still lost as what to do about the header brackets unless I can modify the ones I bought or have some made up but un welded. has anyone out there ran into this situation? I would like to get some measurements of an original bracket if
anyone has a bud cab or an old bracket. help appreciated.

[Gary WA]

Is yours a steel top pickup? Here's an article on Different bodies and who built for Ford. and it's Budd. Happy Model A New Year.Ford Body Styles, Model A, Model T, V-8, Ford Motor Company, Body Suppliers - Coachbult.com
click on link above.

[Gary WA]

Is this the corner?

[jeep44]

Budd is the manufacturer, spelled with two "d"s

[Juggler]

Hey Larry

This is my Budd cab. Roof is all steel. Is that what you've got?



Couple of pics of the inside showing the roof bows and the front header bracket in situ





Happy to take more photographs and some measurements, but if the proper bracket is available from Brattons like 1930 Coupe says above, I'd go for that

Cheers

Juggs

[larry harding]

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31 pickup....thanks guys. mine is a steel top, rounded rear corners, and the lower back of the cab has a slight bow to it. it looks like the photos posted. I got my brackets from mike's and they look different from the ones in the photos. on the repops I have the flange that goes to the angle above the windshield has a sleight upward angle moving away from the tab from the door header flange. on the pictured you guys put up the tab is tight against the corner of the triangle shaped piece and the wind shield flange. I will try to take a photo and post it. i'm not a computer geek, but will give it a shot.

[WTSHNN]

Based on the pictures in the other thread you started you have the wrong sub frame as well. Should have a rounded rear cross member to it like this.



While these Budd cab trucks are uncommon they are by no means rare. There is usually one or two at Model A events and I see one every time I walk into my garage.

-Tim

[larry harding]

I am using the wide rear cross channel with curved corners that mike carries. the photo I posted shows the original subrails with the two crossrails. there must have been a filler piece between the rear cross rail and the back of the cab at one time. if any of the suppliers carry a different front angle bracket for the budd cab I haven't run across it. if I can't find the right brackets I will try modifying the ones I have.

[larry harding]

I just had a scary thought. when I bought the truck the front of the roof was not fastened to the windshield posts, so no corner brackets. the rear of the subrails had been torched off and it looked as if the rusted bottom of the cab had seen the torch also. the corner brackets that support the cab back had been welded to the subrails, which I assumed had been a repair a repair at some time. this pickup also has a rear bumper which i don't think is normal. i am now wondering if someone tried to graft the back of a pickup cab onto a car chassis and front end. the bed was off when i got it as was most all the sheet metal, doors, and fenders. the rear spring seems very heavy like a truck would use. the top and back of the cab are definitely budd, but am now really wondering about the cowl and chassis.
the bad part... i paid a high price for it and have already sprnt another $2000 + on pRTS.

[Juggler]

Pictures Larry, pictures....

[WTSHNN]

Originally Posted by larry harding

i am now wondering if someone tried to graft the back of a pickup cab onto a car chassis and front end.

Yup, probably what you have.

Post pictures of the back of the cab the "lip" at the top of the back of the cab where the roof attaches and the steel top esp the built in visor and rain gutters.

There are several threads on here already detailing the Budd cabs. Use the search feature above and search "Budd" and I'm sure you'll get all the info you need. In fact, when I just did it I found the thread you started a few months back where you thought you had a '30. In it you state you don't have an indented firewall, while that isn't a sure sign that you have a Frankenstein...that bit of knowledge with what you have posted in this thread certainly tips the scales that direction.

This is a great example of why creating multiple threads can be counterproductive. Plenty of information was shared in that first thread that isn't shared here that could help answer some of these problems.

-Tim

[larry harding]

I will try post some more pictures tomorrow. starting the second post was an accident, my was trying to put up the pictures for me. neither of us is a computer geek by a long shot. I have definitely gotten burned on this project. if I can get most of my investment back i'm about ready to give up on this idea.

[larry harding]

here are some photos from various angles of my money pit project. notice the corner bracket doesn't fit right, it should be behind the windshield angle piece. I am also having to make the subrail to back triangle shaped brackets as the old ones were a mess and I don't see any in the catalogs that look like them. is the angle between the subrails and back and subrails to cowl supposed to be 90 degrees? i'm having a hard time trying to square everything up. i'm very close to g etting what I can out of this mess and cutting my losses. thanks for the advise and encouragement.

[larry harding]

I had hoped someone would look at these pictures and tell me more about the pile of parts I have acquired. thanks

[redmodelt]

Not that this helps but when I read the title I was thinking of something else!

[WTSHNN]

The term "steel top" is a bit misleading as it relates to the late '31 Budd pickup cabs...cause there is actually a lot of wood involved with the top...

There is a wood header above the windshield. The top was screwed into this wood header with six wood screws. I'm not too familiar with the wood header used in the other closed cab pickups so how the shape of the header differs...I'm not sure.

There are wood headers above the doors as well. The interior panels are nailed into these and the piece of sheet metal above the doors is also attached to this.

The door jambs use vertical wood pieces that then tie into a wood bow that stretches from door to door. The back wall of the cab as well as the rear portion of the top are nailed into this wood bow.

This is the best picture I have of the top wood of a steel top. You can see the windshield header, the headers above the doors and you can kind of see the vertical door jamb wood. The third bow (the rear-most) isn't yet installed in this picture.



There are two stamped steel top bows that stretch between the door headers. The bows are "U" shaped when looking at a sectional view of them. The bows are attached to the wood above the doors with two screws on each of the for junction points. Rope was used between the bows and the roof as an anti-squeak. The top was in no way affixed to the steel bows, it just rested on the rope.

The two bows pictured below were donated to me 14 years ago by John Charlton from England after I could not find a set anywhere in the US.



The top itself is a single piece of stamped steel that included the visor. There were six holes along the front of the top where screws were put into the wood header to secure it in the front. The sides of the top also had stamped recesses above the doors where rain gutters were spot welded to the top.



-Tim

[Tom Wesenberg]

Thanks Tim.
I'm wondering about the "rope" that fits under the roof.
It must be like a flat frame welt, isn't it?

[john charlton]

Just seen you have two threads running on this . I was confuesd as I had thought "bud" refered to bud vases ( dress up item in town sedans) thats why I missed the first thread . Looking at your pics the rear subrail bracket is "home made" This bracket is the same for both style cabs , Unfortunately this bracket which ties the subrail to the back panel is not made repro so you will have to extend the one you have . The truck I am working on now was a hotrod in an earlier life and the firewall had been mostly cut out . I bought a good indented cowl for $100 and fitted that . To be correct you need to get one, they are available fairly cheap on rodder sites . I would definately carry on with the restoration everything is available and everybody on this site will help you for sure . Looks like you are missing the top roof channels ,I might have them but think they are BB truck I will check . they would need modifying . I should be coming to sunny AZ in Feb and could bring them if I can find them !!! . You can have them free for nuddinks ( you pay shipping) .But you might get lucky and get a pair in USA ,let me know .

John in sunny Suffolk County England .

[Juggler]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Thanks Tim.
I'm wondering about the "rope" that fits under the roof.
It must be like a flat frame welt, isn't it?

Hey Mr W

This is a BB bow, but Dear Old Dad (John Charlton) remembers the same setup on the bows that he sent to Tim all those years ago







The 'rope' is riveted to the bow in three places, in the middle and just on the beginning of the return at either end on the BB item and I can see the back of the rivet on the other side, but can't see any rivet head on the A version looking up from below.

Tim - When Dad sent those bows to you never thought he'd have a Budd cab. Now we have one each. He's out in the 'winter workshop' working on his right now.

[larry harding]

yep! the subrail bracket is my attempt to copy the originals which were welded to the old (todor) subrails and really messed up. I now know I have a Frankenstein as someone put it. I have catalogs from most of the suppliers and they all list the same subrails for the todor and ,pickup.(cut to fit.) if someone has seen the correct ones advertised, please tell me where. can the door header and w s header be made to fiy right? the brackets I have can maybe cut and welded to fit, but are way off the way they came. i'm almost ready to cut my losses and move on. I've got $8500.00 tied up in this train wreck and probably could by one for not much more.