The Ford Barn

Tugmaster · 05-29-2013, 06:36 PM

First of all I am a complete neophyte when it comes to Model A's. I've worked on and restored a few cars over the years but this is my first A.
I bought the car from a gentlemen who bought it from the estate of the previous owners widow.It sat for 10 years from his passing until now. "Supposedly" the motor and trans were completely rebuilt. It ran ok when I went to look at it. When I got it home I decided to do a little investigating of my own and pulled the side cover. I was clean enough to eat off of!! I drained and changed the oil which came out very clean. I drained the old antifreeze and put in water. The anti freeze looked good with just a little rusty tint but not bad.
I started it today to tinker with it some more. When I pulled the rad cap I noticed a bunch of emulsified oil swirling at the top of the radiator. I pulled the dip stick and the oil seemed fine. There was also a little weeping on the d/s between the head and the block. I was going to do a compression check but at this point I think I should just pull the head and look at the cylinders and head.
My questions: Am I on the right thought path here? I don't want to chase my tail so to speak and want to do it once and do it correct. Who makes the best head gadget for a stock head? What is the best way to pull the head. I read somewhere that you can loosen the head bolts 1/8" and start it up and the head would pop loose.
Thanks in advance for any insight you can offer.
Todd

Mitch//pa · 05-29-2013, 06:43 PM

i would do a series of retorquing the head first before i tore anything apart. maybe after the rebuild it was never retorqued properly
also backflush that residue out of the cooloing system and monitor that

Bob C · 05-29-2013, 06:44 PM

The residue in the radiator could be from over greasing the water pump. I would torque
the head and maybe do a compression test before removing the head.

Bob

Darn Mitch I need to type faster

Tugmaster · 05-29-2013, 06:51 PM

Good pointers. Thank you. I will re-torque the head and go from there. Thanks, Todd q

BILL WILLIAMSON · 05-29-2013, 07:01 PM

A little bit of oily lookin' residue floating on top looks like a lot! Just "wick" it off with a paper towel a few times & see if it comes back. If someone used soluable oil in it in the past, that sometimes leaves some harmless scum. Bill W.

1931 flamingo · 05-29-2013, 08:23 PM

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If you decide to pull the head, what you've stated MAY work (loosening the nuts), however if it's been a while, a proper head puller may be needed. When we just did mine, it was STUCK, h/puller started to bend. Finally had to use an engine hoist and it finally "popped" as the front wheels were coming off the ground. Les Andrew's book Vol 1 should be your 1st book of choice and of course come back here with any questions.
Paul in CT

columbiA · 05-29-2013, 09:22 PM

Dont bother to pull the head because there is an oily film in the top of the rad.,unless you like doing needless work.Water pumps are usually overgreased.I give my WP less than 1/4 of one pump on the rear bushing & the rest of the pump stroke in the front brg every 1,000 miles.Take a turkey baster & suck out the oil scum.You will see that there is very little in the top of the rad.

Tom Wesenberg · 05-29-2013, 09:31 PM

What columbia said!!!
Near impossible that even if the head gasket was bad it would have anything to do with oil in the radiator.

Also, if it was my car water would NOT be in it, as I don't like rust. 50% antifreeze at all times.

green30coupe · 05-29-2013, 11:01 PM

Sounds like your cooling system is in pretty good shape if it only has a little tint of rust. If it really bothers you and you feel you need to do something....clean it. Run some Cascade or any other dishwasher detergent in it until the water is hot. Drain it and flush until clean. Then fill it with white vinegar and run it for a while. (a week, 2 weeks, a month) Drain and flush until clear. I don't use antifreeze but I do use Barsleak rust inhibitor. My water is milky looking, but clean and no sign of rust. You might need 50/50 antifreeze.

Chuck Sea/Tac · 05-30-2013, 12:47 AM

It's pretty common for certain types of head gaskets to weep a little out the side . I used the black felpro one , and it would seep.

chopo · 05-30-2013, 05:33 AM

guy up the hill from me actually puts marvels in his rad..... says it keeps the rust out and lubes the back side of things. he has had his A for 70 years doing just that

Tom Wesenberg · 05-30-2013, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chopo

guy up the hill from me actually puts marvels in his rad..... says it keeps the rust out and lubes the back side of things. he has had his A for 70 years doing just that

Does he run pure Marvel Mystery Oil?

Oil and water can't be a good combination.

I knew a guy that put a quart or two of oil into his cooling system on his Chevy van, thinking it would be a good thing. I had to pull his engine to replace the welch plugs in the rear of the block.

Tugmaster · 06-01-2013, 01:47 PM

So I just finished re-torquing the head to 55 ft. lbs. each nut took at least a 1/4 turn. While I was at it I did a compression check. Cold engine. Wide open throttle. I got the following: 58, 58, 60 & 65. Sound ok??
Thanks,
Todd

Mitch//pa · 06-01-2013, 02:32 PM

thanks for the update::

Tom Wesenberg · 06-01-2013, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tugmaster

So I just finished re-torquing the head to 55 ft. lbs. each nut took at least a 1/4 turn. While I was at it I did a compression check. Cold engine. Wide open throttle. I got the following: 58, 58, 60 & 65. Sound ok??
Thanks,
Todd

Sounds great and you've got more compression than my engine.

H. L. Chauvin · 06-01-2013, 09:11 PM

Hi Todd,

Sounds to me like you are already a good restoration mechanic; but, just trying to be a little cautious with your first Model A to insure all is done correctly.

From your reporting what you found thus far, just glad to hear you appear to have a good car that came from an estate whereby the former owner supposedly tried to do things correctly.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 06-01-2013, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Does he run pure Marvel Mystery Oil?

Oil and water can't be a good combination.

I knew a guy that put a quart or two of oil into his cooling system on his Chevy van, thinking it would be a good thing. I had to pull his engine to replace the welch plugs in the rear of the block.

Tom,
NOT recommending this, just an interesting tid-bit: In the '50's we had squeeking water pump seals on new Chryslers & Plymouths. The factory advised adding 1/4 cup of BRAKE FLUID to the coolant. It stopped the noise, completely, in about 30 seconds! Bill W.

bhiland · 06-01-2013, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Tom,
NOT recommending this, just an interesting tid-bit: In the '50's we had squeeking water pump seals on new Chryslers & Plymouths. The factory advised adding 1/4 cup of BRAKE FLUID to the coolant. It stopped the noise, completely, in about 30 seconds! Bill W.

Hmm interesting. Maybe something to try if not just drain and flush what's to loose.

05-29-2013, 06:36 PM	#1
Tugmaster Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: North Stonington Ct Posts: 34	Oil in my radiator and a few questions First of all I am a complete neophyte when it comes to Model A's. I've worked on and restored a few cars over the years but this is my first A. I bought the car from a gentlemen who bought it from the estate of the previous owners widow.It sat for 10 years from his passing until now. "Supposedly" the motor and trans were completely rebuilt. It ran ok when I went to look at it. When I got it home I decided to do a little investigating of my own and pulled the side cover. I was clean enough to eat off of!! I drained and changed the oil which came out very clean. I drained the old antifreeze and put in water. The anti freeze looked good with just a little rusty tint but not bad. I started it today to tinker with it some more. When I pulled the rad cap I noticed a bunch of emulsified oil swirling at the top of the radiator. I pulled the dip stick and the oil seemed fine. There was also a little weeping on the d/s between the head and the block. I was going to do a compression check but at this point I think I should just pull the head and look at the cylinders and head. My questions: Am I on the right thought path here? I don't want to chase my tail so to speak and want to do it once and do it correct. Who makes the best head gadget for a stock head? What is the best way to pull the head. I read somewhere that you can loosen the head bolts 1/8" and start it up and the head would pop loose. Thanks in advance for any insight you can offer. Todd

05-29-2013, 06:43 PM	#2
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Oil in my radiator and a few questions i would do a series of retorquing the head first before i tore anything apart. maybe after the rebuild it was never retorqued properly also backflush that residue out of the cooloing system and monitor that

05-29-2013, 06:44 PM	#3
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,799	Re: Oil in my radiator and a few questions The residue in the radiator could be from over greasing the water pump. I would torque the head and maybe do a compression test before removing the head. Bob Darn Mitch I need to type faster

05-29-2013, 06:51 PM	#4
Tugmaster Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: North Stonington Ct Posts: 34	Re: Oil in my radiator and a few questions Good pointers. Thank you. I will re-torque the head and go from there. Thanks, Todd q

05-29-2013, 07:01 PM	#5
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Oil in my radiator and a few questions A little bit of oily lookin' residue floating on top looks like a lot! Just "wick" it off with a paper towel a few times & see if it comes back. If someone used soluable oil in it in the past, that sometimes leaves some harmless scum. Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

05-29-2013, 08:23 PM	#6
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,393	Re: Oil in my radiator and a few questions Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) If you decide to pull the head, what you've stated MAY work (loosening the nuts), however if it's been a while, a proper head puller may be needed. When we just did mine, it was STUCK, h/puller started to bend. Finally had to use an engine hoist and it finally "popped" as the front wheels were coming off the ground. Les Andrew's book Vol 1 should be your 1st book of choice and of course come back here with any questions. Paul in CT

05-29-2013, 09:22 PM	#7
columbiA Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 1,746	Re: Oil in my radiator and a few questions Dont bother to pull the head because there is an oily film in the top of the rad.,unless you like doing needless work.Water pumps are usually overgreased.I give my WP less than 1/4 of one pump on the rear bushing & the rest of the pump stroke in the front brg every 1,000 miles.Take a turkey baster & suck out the oil scum.You will see that there is very little in the top of the rad.

05-29-2013, 09:31 PM	#8
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Oil in my radiator and a few questions What columbia said!!! Near impossible that even if the head gasket was bad it would have anything to do with oil in the radiator. Also, if it was my car water would NOT be in it, as I don't like rust. 50% antifreeze at all times.

05-29-2013, 11:01 PM	#9
green30coupe Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Coastal Mississippi & Central West Florida Posts: 206	Re: Oil in my radiator and a few questions Sounds like your cooling system is in pretty good shape if it only has a little tint of rust. If it really bothers you and you feel you need to do something....clean it. Run some Cascade or any other dishwasher detergent in it until the water is hot. Drain it and flush until clean. Then fill it with white vinegar and run it for a while. (a week, 2 weeks, a month) Drain and flush until clear. I don't use antifreeze but I do use Barsleak rust inhibitor. My water is milky looking, but clean and no sign of rust. You might need 50/50 antifreeze. __________________ Ed LAW OF MECHANICAL REPAIR ONCE YOUR HANDS BECOME COVERED WITH GREASE, YOUR NOSE WILL ITCH AND YOU'LL HAVE TO PEE

05-30-2013, 12:47 AM	#10
Chuck Sea/Tac Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Between Seattle & Tacoma Posts: 2,360	Re: Oil in my radiator and a few questions It's pretty common for certain types of head gaskets to weep a little out the side . I used the black felpro one , and it would seep.

05-30-2013, 05:33 AM	#11
chopo Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Northumberland Posts: 193	Re: Oil in my radiator and a few questions guy up the hill from me actually puts marvels in his rad..... says it keeps the rust out and lubes the back side of things. he has had his A for 70 years doing just that __________________ www.jalopyshowdown.com dont scare me i poop easy

06-01-2013, 01:47 PM	#13
Tugmaster Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: North Stonington Ct Posts: 34	Re: Oil in my radiator and a few questions So I just finished re-torquing the head to 55 ft. lbs. each nut took at least a 1/4 turn. While I was at it I did a compression check. Cold engine. Wide open throttle. I got the following: 58, 58, 60 & 65. Sound ok?? Thanks, Todd

06-01-2013, 02:32 PM	#14
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Oil in my radiator and a few questions thanks for the update:: Last edited by Mitch//pa; 06-01-2013 at 03:11 PM.

06-01-2013, 09:11 PM	#16
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Oil in my radiator and a few questions Hi Todd, Sounds to me like you are already a good restoration mechanic; but, just trying to be a little cautious with your first Model A to insure all is done correctly. From your reporting what you found thus far, just glad to hear you appear to have a good car that came from an estate whereby the former owner supposedly tried to do things correctly.