Navarro 8ba Heads

[Shoebox]

After not having much luck buying a good used pair of Edmunds heads, I'm considering a new pair of 8ba Navarro heads.H&H says they are one of the best flowing heads. Would love to hear from anyone who has experience or knowledge of them. Thanks.

[69a]

The Navarro heads that I have, in an engine supplied by H&H have the spark plug area too thick in the casting, about 4 threads to thick. The entire plug including the electrode is up inside the thread. The plugs get fouled every 500 to 1,000 miles. You can't put a longer plug in because the valve is too close. If he hasn't corrected this with the casting you will need to get some material removed.

[tubman]

"Shoebox", didn't you have a pair of Edmunds heads that needed some work? If you still have them, are they both unusable, or just one? In my never ending quest to find usable Edmunds heads, I have accumulated a couple of odd extras. I just bought a set with a good left (US driver) side and a cracked right head. If you still have them, perhaps we should discuss what we have and maybe we can come up with a solution to your problems. Best case, you come up with a good set of heads; worst case, I might buy yours to add to my pile of culls. I think it might be worth looking into, as I am convinced of the superiority of the design of the Edmunds units.

And "69a", that is troubling to hear about the Navarro heads. If true, it brings the quality of the entire design in question. I have never paid much attention to the idea that the Navarro's are "one of the best flowing heads" since with flatheads all of the ports and valves are in the block. In my book, getting the most compression without hurting the flow too much is is the main concern. This has more to do with quench and flame front travel than any esoteric contouring of the head surface. I would suggest trying to unshroud the plugs by using the longest plugs possible and some minor contouring of the heads around the plug. One other thing I might suggest is using the proper length "surface gap" plug. These are usually found in 2 cycle outboard motors. I had a 276 Merc with Offenhauser heads years ago that I couldn't get the proper reach plugs for. I ended up using surface gap plugs out of a 65 HP Johnson "Loop-Charged" triple that worked very well. That engine had a complete MSD ignition system, so I had enough oomph to fire the plugs. The only problem I had was that the spark was so hot that in a year's time, it burned through the coil wire tower, ruining the cap. Other than replacing the cap once a year, it turned out to be a great setup.

[69a]

The Edelbrock heads appear to have CNC recesses around the plug area.
My Navarro heads do not. I can see down the the spark plugs hole that there is virtually no gap between the last thread and the exhaust valve (when fully open).

[69a]

Navarro heads

[KiWinUS]

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Originally Posted by 69a

The Navarro heads that I have, in an engine supplied by H&H have the spark plug area too thick in the casting, about 4 threads to thick. The entire plug including the electrode is up inside the thread. The plugs get fouled every 500 to 1,000 miles. You can't put a longer plug in because the valve is too close. If he hasn't corrected this with the casting you will need to get some material removed.

Question. So if H&H built this engine what did Mike say about fouling plugs so often?

[Shoebox]

Originally Posted by tubman

"Shoebox", didn't you have a pair of Edmunds heads that needed some work? If you still have them, are they both unusable, or just one? In my never ending quest to find usable Edmunds heads, I have accumulated a couple of odd extras. I just bought a set with a good left (US driver) side and a cracked right head. If you still have them, perhaps we should discuss what we have and maybe we can come up with a solution to your problems. Best case, you come up with a good set of heads; worst case, I might buy yours to add to my pile of culls. I think it might be worth looking into, as I am convinced of the superiority of the design of the Edmunds units.

And "69a", that is troubling to hear about the Navarro heads. If true, it brings the quality of the entire design in question. I have never paid much attention to the idea that the Navarro's are "one of the best flowing heads" since with flatheads all of the ports and valves are in the block. In my book, getting the most compression without hurting the flow too much is is the main concern. This has more to do with quench and flame front travel than any esoteric contouring of the head surface. I would suggest trying to unshroud the plugs by using the longest plugs possible and some minor contouring of the heads around the plug. One other thing I might suggest is using the proper length "surface gap" plug. These are usually found in 2 cycle outboard motors. I had a 276 Merc with Offenhauser heads years ago that I couldn't get the proper reach plugs for. I ended up using surface gap plugs out of a 65 HP Johnson "Loop-Charged" triple that worked very well. That engine had a complete MSD ignition system, so I had enough oomph to fire the plugs. The only problem I had was that the spark was so hot that in a year's time, it burned through the coil wire tower, ruining the cap. Other than replacing the cap once a year, it turned out to be a great setup.

"Tubman" pm sent.

[Shoebox]

Originally Posted by KiWinUS

Question. So if H&H built this engine what did Mike say about fouling plugs so often?

I asked Mike about this subject, his response below.

On Jun 3, 2026, at 9:23 AM, Mike Herman <[email protected]> wrote:

 The electrode is not supposed to hanging out in the valve pocket or it will hit the valve

[KiWinUS]

Originally Posted by Shoebox

I asked Mike about this subject, his response below.

On Jun 3, 2026, at 9:23 AM, Mike Herman <[email protected]> wrote:

 The electrode is not supposed to hanging out in the valve pocket or it will hit the valve

True with many different brand flathead heads. But what did he say about fouling plugs?

[tubman]

Originally Posted by KiWinUS

True with many different brand flathead heads. But what did he say about fouling plugs?

Edmunds is the one exception I know of; I believe it is a huge advantage.

H&H is now marketing the Navarro heads; is that correct?

[KiWinUS]

Originally Posted by tubman

Edmunds is the one exception I know of; I believe it is a huge advantage.

H&H is now marketing the Navarro heads; is that correct?

Correct

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Shoebox

I asked Mike about this subject, his response below.

On Jun 3, 2026, at 9:23 AM, Mike Herman <[email protected]> wrote:

 The electrode is not supposed to hanging out in the valve pocket or it will hit the valve

It shouldn't be "hanging out" but it also shouldn't be tuck deep inside the threads of the head. If they are off the engine, you can get spark plug spacers to help you select the correct one so you can use common 3/4" reach plugs.

Now that I say that, are you sure they weren't reworked for 3/4" plugs? New Edlebrocks are recast this way.

[KiWinUS]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

It shouldn't be "hanging out" but it also shouldn't be tuck deep inside the threads of the head. If they are off the engine, you can get spark plug spacers to help you select the correct one so you can use common 3/4" reach plugs.

Now that I say that, are you sure they weren't reworked for 3/4" plugs? New Edlebrocks are recast this way.

You can even use an extended tip plug in the new Edelbrock even with .400 valve lift and heads cut for .045” squish.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

It shouldn't be "hanging out" but it also shouldn't be tuck deep inside the threads of the head. If they are off the engine, you can get spark plug spacers to help you select the correct one so you can use common 3/4" reach plugs.

Now that I say that, are you sure they weren't reworked for 3/4" plugs? New Edlebrocks are recast this way.

A minor point, but wasn't it the Offenhauser heads that have been recently changed to use the longer plugs? There was an extended discussion on this board several years ago that came to the conclusion that there was no proper length plug currently available for Offenhauser heads and spacers were needed. I have a set of never-been-installed Offenhauser 8BA heads I bought new in the mid-90's that confirm this. The first set of finned heads I ever bought was a set of Edelbrock's in 1961, and they took a Champion "N" series plug even back then. I just bought a set of used Edelbrock's on eBay, and they take 3/4" reach plugs. I know; I measured them yesterday to determine which Time-Sert set I need to fix a bad plug hole. Jeez, are those things (Time-Serts) expensive.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by tubman

A minor point, but wasn't it the Offenhauser heads that have been recently changed to use the longer plugs? There was an extended discussion on this board several years ago that came to the conclusion that there was no proper length plug currently available for Offenhauser heads and spacers were needed. I have a set of never-been-installed Offenhauser 8BA heads I bought new in the mid-90's that confirm this. The first set of finned heads I ever bought was a set of Edelbrock's in 1961, and they took a Champion "N" series plug even back then. I just bought a set of used Edelbrock's on eBay, and they take 3/4" reach plugs. I know; I measured them yesterday to determine which Time-Sert set I need to fix a bad plug hole. Jeez, are those things (Time-Serts) expensive.

Not sure about Offy, but I know for certain new Edelbrock's take 3/4" plugs. I have a set on my car now.

[KiWinUS]

Originally Posted by tubman

A minor point, but wasn't it the Offenhauser heads that have been recently changed to use the longer plugs? There was an extended discussion on this board several years ago that came to the conclusion that there was no proper length plug currently available for Offenhauser heads and spacers were needed. I have a set of never-been-installed Offenhauser 8BA heads I bought new in the mid-90's that confirm this. The first set of finned heads I ever bought was a set of Edelbrock's in 1961, and they took a Champion "N" series plug even back then. I just bought a set of used Edelbrock's on eBay, and they take 3/4" reach plugs. I know; I measured them yesterday to determine which Time-Sert set I need to fix a bad plug hole. Jeez, are those things (Time-Serts) expensive.

The latest update version of Edelbrock have fully CNC machined chambers.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by KiWinUS

The latest update version of Edelbrock have fully CNC machined chambers.

Yep

[KiWinUS]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Yep

I have used several set.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by KiWinUS

I have used several set.

I will say, and I don't have any dyno info to back it up, the Cyclones I took over ran better. Just seat of the pants and to my ear, the throttle crack was sharper and crisper.

I may put them back on this winter.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by KiWinUS

I have used several set.

They are beautifully cast and machined. Still made in the USA too.

[69a]

Originally Posted by KiWinUS

Question. So if H&H built this engine what did Mike say about fouling plugs so often?

I never asked about the plug problem, as I only noticed it a couple of months ago. I had other issues at the time.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

They are beautifully cast and machined. Still made in the USA too.

If the Chinese ever get into it, we may see decent $395 finned aluminum heads again. If they can make $109 "shoebox" Ford three row radiators, I don't see why they couldn't make a decent set of cheap heads. Does anyone have any idea of why Offenhauser heads are usually priced hundreds of dollars higher than comparable Edelbrock's? Especially since the latest improvements.

So I guess we're all in agreement that all Edelbrock's use 3/4" reach plugs (and always have). Here's a link to the thread where we determined that Offenhauser heads (used to) need a 5/8" reach plug; which isn't made :https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...ghlight=spacer. I hear that problem has been since corrected.

[KiWinUS]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

I will say, and I don't have any dyno info to back it up, the Cyclones I took over ran better. Just seat of the pants and to my ear, the throttle crack was sharper and crisper.

I may put them back on this winter.

I can get you the name of the sealer I used on the original 28 Miller OHV head. It has been driven for close to a year with no issues so far and it was throwaway.
Your wife may not be happy when you bake it in her over though. ��

[69a]

Originally Posted by Shoebox

I asked Mike about this subject, his response below.

On Jun 3, 2026, at 9:23 AM, Mike Herman <[email protected]> wrote:

 The electrode is not supposed to hanging out in the valve pocket or it will hit the valve

When the exhaust valve is fully open there is less than 1/16" gap between the valve and the cylinder head. This means the entire plug is up inside the thread. I have seen some heads where a recess is cast into the combustion chamber. The Edelbrock combustion chamber pictured in my previous post has a CNC machined recess to allow for the electrode to extend into the combustion chamber without hitting the valve. The Edelbrock combustion chamber looks great, the other one, not so much.

[KiWinUS]

Originally Posted by 69a

When the exhaust valve is fully open there is less than 1/16" gap between the valve and the cylinder head. This means the entire plug is up inside the thread. I have seen some heads where a recess is cast into the combustion chamber. The Edelbrock combustion chamber pictured in my previous post has a CNC machined recess to allow for the electrode to extend into the combustion chamber without hitting the valve. The Edelbrock combustion chamber looks great, the other one, not so much.

Only the latest Edelbrock are like that all earlier versions are more like the Navarro. I try to get the valve at .040 clearance to the cyl head. 55 plus years building these gems.
So what did Mike say about your plug fouling issues if he built the engine???

[Tim Ayers]

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Originally Posted by tubman

If the Chinese ever get into it, we may see decent $395 finned aluminum heads again. If they can make $109 "shoebox" Ford three row radiators, I don't see why they couldn't make a decent set of cheap heads. Does anyone have any idea of why Offenhauser heads are usually priced hundreds of dollars higher than comparable Edelbrock's? Especially since the latest improvements.

So I guess we're all in agreement that all Edelbrock's use 3/4" reach plugs (and always have). Here's a link to the thread where we determined that Offenhauser heads (used to) need a 5/8" reach plug; which isn't made :https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...ghlight=spacer. I hear that problem has been since corrected.

Tubman,

Offy still does all of the finish work and final machining by hand in CA. I’d assume the higher cost is associated with the higher labor to finish their products.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by KiWinUS

I can get you the name of the sealer I used on the original 28 Miller OHV head. It has been driven for close to a year with no issues so far and it was throwaway.
Your wife may not be happy when you bake it in her over though. ��

I’ll text you. Thanks, Tony