crank gear oil slinger on a 292 Thunderbird engine.

[37 Coupe]

Is there supposed to be an oil slinger before or after the crankshaft gear on a 1955 Ford 292 Thunderbird engine? It looks like someone may have put one behind the crank gear and it is destoyed metal hopefully not any other damage like to block or crank itself or bearings from heat.Is this gear with the cam gear a press on or will it pull off easy?

[dmsfrr]

The oil slinger goes on the front side of the crankshaft timing gear. Not sure how one would even fit behind it.
The timing gear(s) should slide off together after removing the bolt at the front center of the cam shaft. The fit past the woodruff keys on the crank may/may not be a little bit snug.

Keep all the small pieces from the front of the cam gear in order so they go back on correctly.

[37 Coupe]

Thanks Dennis. I wonder if this is a part that was not used until 1956 292 engines ? Reason I say this is my parts book dated November 1954 Form 7516 does not show this slinger in Thunderbird crankshaft exploded view.When I look on Ebay they show the slinger with a B6A prefix most parts in my 1955 book prefix with B5A so maybe the B6 means this part was introduced in 1956.Couple of my Ford repair manuals do not mention the slinger like the 1955 Ford repair manual. So now I wonder if the guy who put this on wrong had nothing to go by an just put the slinger behind like on Flathead Ford engines. I just hope it created no other damage other than to the slinger. I have been trying for three months now to figure this car out with no prior history to lean on. Car was bought from estate.Someone years ago put new plugs ,anitfreeze,oil and filter on this engine and never ran it long.I can tell because everything is clean as new,plugs are new but sooty. I think it started made noise with slinger being chewed up and guy shut it down and walked away from it like I hope I don't do,just wonder what else I will find,probably should pull the engine and go through it but thought I would go this way first,all started with misaligned crank pulley/balancer and then crank seal replace but lucky I guess pulling timing cover and seeing the slinger tore up beteween block and cranks gear. I do know this about previous owner,he was a Thunderbird/'55 Ford car restorer by trade in Ohio.

[Daves55Sedan]

If you put the oil slinger on backwards, the crankshaft damper hub will crush it against the lower timing chain sprocket. The photo dmsfrr shows the oil slinger installed correctly.
I don't see how anyone could install it backwards as it is easy to see the crankshaft damper hub wouldn't go on all the way with it installed backward. They must have torqued the crankshaft damper bolt to the max to crush that oil slinger.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by 37 Coupe

Thanks Dennis. I wonder if this is a part that was not used until 1956 292 engines ? Reason I say this is my parts book dated November 1954 Form 7516 does not show this slinger in Thunderbird crankshaft exploded view. ...

I'm not sure why the slinger isn't mentioned in the '55 books. I expected it to be shown in Figure 23 (crankshaft exploded view) on page 52 of a '55 Shop Manual, but it isn't.

To further the mystery, the close-up first photo in my reply # 2 above (bigger version below) shows the slinger in a '54 256 Merc engine, block & heads with an EBY casting number prefix. Noted that the engine wasn't original to the car it was removed from.

There was also a front oil slinger on the crank in the mostly '55 long-block engine I bought from another T-Bird to replace the 256.

[scicala]

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Many years ago, I was the first person to take apart my '55 Mercury Montclair 292 which was the 198 HP Thunderbird engine, and it had an oil slinger.

Sal

[37 Coupe]

Okay so all of the help has been great but I have one more favor to ask. On the camshaft timing gear/fuel pump eccentric parts it looks like I am missing one part.Now again I am going by my November 1954 form7516 parts book. I am missing either the washer EAA-6278-B or maybe it is the spacer B4A-6291-A and maybe how they are placed in respect to the eccentric or its counterweight.Thanks

[dmsfrr]

Do you have the counterweight or a keyed spacer like this one? It's one or the other.

The counterweight or keyed spacer goes on first, against the large cam gear, then the eccentric ring. Next is a round un-keyed spacer then the bolt with a lock washer and large-ish flat washer.

[37 Coupe]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

Do you have the counterweight or a keyed spacer like this one? It's usually one or the other.

counterweight. Another confusion if parts book shows both in exploded view. So I am okay with just the counterweight?

[dmsfrr]

Yes. The counterweight was discontinued in '57 (?) in favor of the keyed spacer. Most likely due to the cost savings.

[KULTULZ]

In mid-1956 production, the FYB saw many changes. The CAM DRIVE (among other changes) was updated. The slinger was not used before this change (subject to TED EATON's opinion). There was a drip tray that diverted supplied oil to the chain directly. This was eliminated and as a result of the chain being lubed off of splash, the slinger was necessary to keep oil off the front seal.

[37 Coupe]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

In mid-1956 production, the FYB saw many changes. The CAM DRIVE (among other changes) was updated. The slinger was not used before this change (subject to TED EATON's opinion). There was a drip tray that diverted supplied oil to the chain directly. This was eliminated and as a result of the chain being lubed off of splash, the slinger was necessary to keep oil off the front seal.

Is this the drip tray you mention? My November 1954 parts book names it trough (timing chain lubricating) part# EAN 6880-A for 272 and 292 engines in pass car and Thunderbird. To further confuse sometimes mechanics as myself the exploded picture shows it with the cam shaft not with the crank where it is closest to. My question now if trough is in place on block as shown in my picture of my engine can you or should you also use the slinger which mine and my early book and engine do notshow or have in place. I did buy a NOS slinger the other day.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by 37 Coupe

Is this the drip tray you mention? My November 1954 parts book names it trough (timing chain lubricating) part# EAN 6880-A for 272 and 292 engines in pass car and Thunderbird.

Yes ...

To further confuse sometimes mechanics as myself the exploded picture shows it with the cam shaft not with the crank where it is closest to. My question now if trough is in place on block as shown in my picture of my engine can you or should you also use the slinger which mine and my early book and engine do not show or have in place. I did buy a NOS slinger the other day.

You have the earlier style cam drive setup. IMO, there is no reason to go to the later style. When TED EATON machines a later block, he adds the tray mounting position to the block.

It seems to me that I would want the slinger on the setup if it will fit within the crank gear/crank snout. It may be FORD engineering missed this at first design and/or realized the importance to add.

To add is a question for TED EATON as he is the FINAL WORD (IMO) on this type of FYB modification(s). I am not qualified to make that call.

He will take your E-MAIL, PM or you can post it on his site.

- http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/default.aspx -

Hope that made sense and helps.

[37 Coupe]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Yes ...



You have the earlier style cam drive setup. IMO, there is no reason to go to the later style. When TED EATON machines a later block, he adds the tray mounting position to the block.

It seems to me that I would want the slinger on the setup if it will fit within the crank gear/crank snout. It may be FORD engineering missed this at first design and/or realized the importance to add.

To add is a question for TED EATON as he is the FINAL WORD (IMO) on this type of FYB modification(s). I am not qualified to make that call.

He will take your E-MAIL, PM or you can post it on his site.

- http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/default.aspx -

Hope that made sense and helps.

I tried to register on his site but looks like it isn't working so I emailed him to ask him about using both slinger and trough.It looks like a site I need to be on,my first Y block and I do not want to pull engine until I can try to get it going and find out why years ago a previous owner put new plugs,oil and filter and antifreeze and did not run much,new Bosch plugs are sooty and carb is off so may have been fuel issue that he quit on? Always a Flathead guy before.

[KULTULZ]

Sorry about that. They have a restricted entry due to spamming -

Posted 2 Years Ago

Co-Administrator

Due to security reasons and attempting to keep the spammers from having a field day with this site, the forum registration is now such that new members must be verified before giving out ‘posting’ privileges.

If you are a non-member of the YBF forums and get an error message when attempting to register so you can post or participate on the forums, then feel free to contact me via email to get you registered on the site. My contact information can be found at www.eatonbalancing.com .

Ted Eaton.

Please let this board know what you find on this thread if you will ...

[37 Coupe]

Okay got another Y block Question.On the front of the timing cover and where the four hex bolts attach to the front engine support why is four bolts 3/8" threads and the one out of the four is 5/16" . You think all four would be the same.

[KULTULZ]

Is the engine in a FORD or BIRD?

[37 Coupe]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Is the engine in a FORD or BIRD?

'55 Thunderbird.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by 37 Coupe

Okay got another Y block Question.On the front of the timing cover and where the four hex bolts attach to the front engine support why is four bolts 3/8" threads and the one out of the four is 5/16" . You think all four would be the same.

Looking at it from the front... the upper right bolt hole threads in the block are 5/16, the rest are 3/8. My first guess is it may have something to do with the thickness of the block in that area, being so close to the bottom of cyl #5.

The hole in the mounting bracket at center left does not go into the timing cover or block and is / can be used as a generator mounting bracket attaching point.

[37 Coupe]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

Looking at it from the front... the upper right bolt hole threads in the block are 5/16, the rest are 3/8. My first guess is it may have something to do with the thickness of the block in that area, being so close to the bottom of cyl #5.

The hole in the mounting bracket at center left does not go into the timing cover or block and is / can be used as a generator mounting bracket attaching point.

Thanks for info and pictures.Is center mount supposed to be red orange or black? Got both timing cover and mount ready to paint tomorrow.

[dmsfrr]

I believe the front engine mounting bracket was originally Ford Red, painted along with the rest of the assembled engine. It may be listed somewhere in these linked pages...
https://www.ctci.org/wp-content/uplo...enticity-1.pdf

.

[KULTULZ]

... my parts book dated November 1954 Form 7516 does not show this slinger in Thunderbird crankshaft exploded view.

When I look on Ebay they show the slinger with a B6A prefix most parts in my 1955 book prefix with B5A so maybe the B6 means this part was introduced in 1956. Couple of my Ford repair manuals do not mention the slinger like the 1955 Ford repair manual.

This still puzzles me (as do most things).

I have come across an MPC ILL that shows the slinger on a 55/ .

I think what happened (the 54 239 did not have a slinger) is that at some point in the 55 assembly year, engineering discovered it needed a slinger. That slinger does have a 1956 model year PN PREFIX (and again, this might be a super-seceding PN).

It may be that there was a SERVICE BULLETIN describing all of this. Without a full collection of service bulletins of the period, subjects such as this is all conjecture.

But regardless, it needs a slinger (IMO). If the engine had the early cam drive, all of it should be retained (IMO). When FORD re-designed the cam drive mid-1956 production, it also deleted the rocker arm drip shields which in turn changed the valve-train geometry and different length push-rods were used along with rockers. All of this has to be taken into consideration (again IMO) when modifying the valve-train.

[37 Coupe]

Again I could not find the slinger listed in my 1955 Ford chassis parts catalog Form 7516 November 1954.This was succeeded by same Form # 7516 but was dated Sept 1955 and I don't have it but if someone does it would be interesting if it was now shown as a 1955 Ford part. My 292 engine in my January 1955 Thunderbird did not have a slinger but I was told they were a common part to missplace and leave out. I have placed one back on in anycase.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by 37 Coupe

Again I could not find the slinger listed in my 1955 Ford chassis parts catalog Form 7516 November 1954.This was succeeded by same Form # 7516 but was dated Sept 1955 and I don't have it but if someone does it would be interesting if it was now shown as a 1955 Ford part. My 292 engine in my January 1955 Thunderbird did not have a slinger but I was told they were a common part to missplace and leave out. I have placed one back on in anycase.

Did you read my post #22?

[37 Coupe]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Did you read my post #22?

Yes my post was a reply to you.I understood everything you said except for what an MPC Ill is.

[37 Coupe]

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Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Did you read my post #22?

Yes my post was a reply to you.I understood everything you said except for what an MPC Ill is. Motor Parts illustration?

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by 37 Coupe

Yes my post was a reply to you.I understood everything you said except for what an MPC Ill is. Motor Parts illustration?

Another KULTULZ 'FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE' EPISODE.

MPC - MASTER PARTS CATALOG - (Contains CHASSIS and BODY CATALOG - TEXT AND ILLUSTRATIONS)

ILL - ILLUSTRATION (or diagram)

Your catalog is correct (early edition). I found two updated ILL's (SEP 1959 and APR 1964. I have only those two editions.

The 59 edition shows the ILL (P-1865 / 9-60) and describing text as 'TYPICAL CRANKSHAFT, FLYWHEEL AND RELATED PARTS'.

The 64 edition shows the same ILL (P-1865 / 1-64) and describing text reads '1955/ CRANKSHAFT ...

Now both text sections show the slinger with a 1956 PREFIX PN.

So you can see how cataloging can vary over the years. BTW, each year MPC was printed in calendar quarters and included any updating/corrections.

So the catalog you have is correct. It (slinger) must have been added sometime during 1955 production.