The Ford Barn

Utopia Texas · 05-12-2016, 05:17 PM

Twenty Eight years ago I started to dismantle my 160A to take the body off, rebuild the engine etc. and paint. My worse day back then was trying to take the inside door handles and window cranks off to take the interior panels off the doors. No matter how hard I pushed on the escutcheons I could barely get a gap small enough to push the tiny pins out to then get the handles and eschucheons off. These doors are all steel and when pushing on the escutcheons there is no play inside the doors.
The second worse day was a year later trying to get the handles back on and I remember having to drill holes further out on the stumps for some play and even then had to force the pins in with chisel and hammer though I had pre fit the pins and handles without the escutcheons and had slightly beveled the pins on a grinder.
Fast forward to today trying to get the pins out again. What gives here. This should not be so hard!!! No matter how hard I push in on the escutcheons to make a gap I can barely see the pins. I have had to use a large flat screwdriver to make the gap and still have trouble getting a ice pick in the slim gap to push on the pins.
One of four things must be wrong because this should not be this hard where you have to damage the escutcheons to get the handles off and then back on.
(1) The handle stubs are too short and should stick out through the interior paneling further........but this is definitely the original hardware.
(2) The interior paneling is too thick. I believe the interior is a 1950's job as it is a leatherette grey which is not original.
(3) The escutcheons and handles are too fat and holes for the pins are in the wrong places......Could be because this is a mishmash of escutcheons and handles that do not match and are probably really old reproductions.
(4) After 28 years working on old cars I still do not know what I am doing!

Some advice and sympathy needed. I've spent two hours in a hot barn and only have one door done with three to go......

pooch · 05-12-2016, 05:59 PM

Is your spring behind compressing to solid ?

I think, admittedly it was repo stuff, I had to cut a half a coil off the spring .

No ggod to you trying to get it off, but maybe once you do you can make that spring a bit thinner ?

Tom Wesenberg · 05-12-2016, 06:10 PM

I also think some of the repro springs are heavier than originals, as I've had the same problem. Hopefully the springs are installed correctly, with the small end of the coils pushing against the steel door, and the large coils pushing on the upholstery panel.

Utopia Texas · 05-12-2016, 06:35 PM

Though I have seen them in books there are no springs behind the panel and never have been any there since I have owned this Model A. I am having so much trouble now not being able to push the escutcheons in more than a hair I see no way any amount of spring would fit. In fact the escutcheons are so tight between the handles and panels the escutcheons have cut through the leatherette over the years like a cookie cutter in dough!
I am wondering if the panel is too thick though the leatherette is very thin.
I have never worked on any other Model A so I do not know what I am missing here....
Have rebuilt 5 Model T's and a 1899 Leggett Horseless Carriage.

Tinbasher · 05-12-2016, 07:41 PM

Yes the problem is in the springs. The originals are thinner and will flatten down on them selves. Then you'll have no problem unless the material is too thick. I no longer use the A/M springs for this reason.

John Poole

Utopia Texas · 05-12-2016, 08:13 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

As I stated above there are no springs behind the panels....

Tom Wesenberg · 05-12-2016, 08:58 PM

I think you are right that it's the panel that's too thick.
Do you have a picture you can post of the surface and the edge of the panel?

Utopia Texas · 05-12-2016, 09:16 PM

I don't currently have a account with any site that stores jpegs. Anyone know of a site that is simple for the simple minded?

Utopia Texas · 05-12-2016, 09:21 PM

Test Picture....

Tom Wesenberg · 05-12-2016, 09:26 PM

Click on "Go Advanced", then "Manage Attachments", then go to "pictures" in your computer and click on the picture you want to post. Then click on "Upload Pictures", and wait a few seconds for it to upload. This way you don't need a remote hosting site for your pictures.

Y-Blockhead · 05-12-2016, 09:42 PM

Don't know if this helps but there is a tool for this...

C26Pinelake · 05-12-2016, 09:51 PM

when all is said and done I am sure your problem is the thickness of the panel. Might be a good time to replace it. Wayne

pooch · 05-13-2016, 01:24 AM

Maybe you have some previous farmer fix work on winders.

Check if anyone has put washers between winder and inner door frame for whatever reason packing inwards .

Maybe best to have someone here give you an exact measuremant your hole in shaft should be out from the metal door .

No good chasing shadows until you find what is wrong.

Mike · 05-13-2016, 06:07 AM

Who sells this tool for removing pins ?

Mike

Utopia Texas · 05-13-2016, 09:28 AM

Trying to download and store pictures from my IPad to this site with a few problems. Site will only let me download and store 1 jpeg. at a time though I have reduced their size and for some reason downloads them to site up side down.
Anyway here is a shot of a rear door and thickness of panel.

https://fordbarn.com/forum/attachment...1&d=1463149526

Tom Wesenberg · 05-13-2016, 10:05 AM

Yep, I'd say the vinyl and excess thickness of the padding is the problem.

I don't have any pictures of original panels to show though.

V8COOPMAN · 05-13-2016, 10:58 AM

Here's upside-up! DD

Y-Blockhead · 05-13-2016, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

Who sells this tool for removing pins ?

Mike

Why it's available from our Favorite Vendor everyone loves to Bad Mouth... MAC's

Mitch//pa · 05-13-2016, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

Why it's available from our Favorite Vendor everyone loves to Bad Mouth... MAC's

Then the tool is junk

Y-Blockhead · 05-13-2016, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

Then the tool is junk

I suppose everyone is entitled to their opinion...

DJ S · 05-13-2016, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Yep, I'd say the vinyl and excess thickness of the padding is the problem.

I don't have any pictures of original panels to show though.

I agree, that panel looks way too thick.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 05-13-2016, 12:19 PM

I've heard of window crank shafts being too SHORT. One guy cut a piece from an OLD shaft & welded it to his shaft. Your window mechanism "might" NOT be an original??
Bill W.

jimalabam · 05-13-2016, 07:50 PM

I agree with Tom & DJ S. The door panel and/or material is too thick...

05-12-2016, 05:17 PM	#1
Utopia Texas Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Brookshire & Cat Spring,Texas Posts: 222	Third Worse Day Of My Model A Life-Window Crank Pins! Twenty Eight years ago I started to dismantle my 160A to take the body off, rebuild the engine etc. and paint. My worse day back then was trying to take the inside door handles and window cranks off to take the interior panels off the doors. No matter how hard I pushed on the escutcheons I could barely get a gap small enough to push the tiny pins out to then get the handles and eschucheons off. These doors are all steel and when pushing on the escutcheons there is no play inside the doors. The second worse day was a year later trying to get the handles back on and I remember having to drill holes further out on the stumps for some play and even then had to force the pins in with chisel and hammer though I had pre fit the pins and handles without the escutcheons and had slightly beveled the pins on a grinder. Fast forward to today trying to get the pins out again. What gives here. This should not be so hard!!! No matter how hard I push in on the escutcheons to make a gap I can barely see the pins. I have had to use a large flat screwdriver to make the gap and still have trouble getting a ice pick in the slim gap to push on the pins. One of four things must be wrong because this should not be this hard where you have to damage the escutcheons to get the handles off and then back on. (1) The handle stubs are too short and should stick out through the interior paneling further........but this is definitely the original hardware. (2) The interior paneling is too thick. I believe the interior is a 1950's job as it is a leatherette grey which is not original. (3) The escutcheons and handles are too fat and holes for the pins are in the wrong places......Could be because this is a mishmash of escutcheons and handles that do not match and are probably really old reproductions. (4) After 28 years working on old cars I still do not know what I am doing! Some advice and sympathy needed. I've spent two hours in a hot barn and only have one door done with three to go......

05-12-2016, 05:59 PM	#2
pooch Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: South Coast NSW Australia Posts: 2,596	Re: Third Worse Day Of My Model A Life-Window Crank Pins! Is your spring behind compressing to solid ? I think, admittedly it was repo stuff, I had to cut a half a coil off the spring . No ggod to you trying to get it off, but maybe once you do you can make that spring a bit thinner ?

05-12-2016, 06:10 PM	#3
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Third Worse Day Of My Model A Life-Window Crank Pins! I also think some of the repro springs are heavier than originals, as I've had the same problem. Hopefully the springs are installed correctly, with the small end of the coils pushing against the steel door, and the large coils pushing on the upholstery panel.

05-12-2016, 06:35 PM	#4
Utopia Texas Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Brookshire & Cat Spring,Texas Posts: 222	Re: Third Worse Day Of My Model A Life-Window Crank Pins! Though I have seen them in books there are no springs behind the panel and never have been any there since I have owned this Model A. I am having so much trouble now not being able to push the escutcheons in more than a hair I see no way any amount of spring would fit. In fact the escutcheons are so tight between the handles and panels the escutcheons have cut through the leatherette over the years like a cookie cutter in dough! I am wondering if the panel is too thick though the leatherette is very thin. I have never worked on any other Model A so I do not know what I am missing here.... Have rebuilt 5 Model T's and a 1899 Leggett Horseless Carriage.

05-12-2016, 07:41 PM	#5
Tinbasher Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Innisfil, Ontario Canada Posts: 1,174	Re: Third Worse Day Of My Model A Life-Window Crank Pins! Yes the problem is in the springs. The originals are thinner and will flatten down on them selves. Then you'll have no problem unless the material is too thick. I no longer use the A/M springs for this reason. John Poole

05-12-2016, 08:13 PM	#6
Utopia Texas Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Brookshire & Cat Spring,Texas Posts: 222	Re: Third Worse Day Of My Model A Life-Window Crank Pins! Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) As I stated above there are no springs behind the panels....

05-12-2016, 08:58 PM	#7
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Third Worse Day Of My Model A Life-Window Crank Pins! I think you are right that it's the panel that's too thick. Do you have a picture you can post of the surface and the edge of the panel?

05-12-2016, 09:16 PM	#8
Utopia Texas Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Brookshire & Cat Spring,Texas Posts: 222	Re: Third Worse Day Of My Model A Life-Window Crank Pins! I don't currently have a account with any site that stores jpegs. Anyone know of a site that is simple for the simple minded?

05-12-2016, 09:21 PM	#9
Utopia Texas Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Brookshire & Cat Spring,Texas Posts: 222	Re: Third Worse Day Of My Model A Life-Window Crank Pins! Test Picture.... Last edited by Utopia Texas; 05-12-2016 at 09:27 PM.

05-12-2016, 09:26 PM	#10
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Third Worse Day Of My Model A Life-Window Crank Pins! Click on "Go Advanced", then "Manage Attachments", then go to "pictures" in your computer and click on the picture you want to post. Then click on "Upload Pictures", and wait a few seconds for it to upload. This way you don't need a remote hosting site for your pictures.

05-12-2016, 09:51 PM	#12
C26Pinelake BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Michigan / Ontario border, Sarnia, Ontario. 50 miles from Detroit and 150 from Toronto. Posts: 5,800	Re: Third Worse Day Of My Model A Life-Window Crank Pins! when all is said and done I am sure your problem is the thickness of the panel. Might be a good time to replace it. Wayne

05-13-2016, 01:24 AM	#13
pooch Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: South Coast NSW Australia Posts: 2,596	Re: Third Worse Day Of My Model A Life-Window Crank Pins! Maybe you have some previous farmer fix work on winders. Check if anyone has put washers between winder and inner door frame for whatever reason packing inwards . Maybe best to have someone here give you an exact measuremant your hole in shaft should be out from the metal door . No good chasing shadows until you find what is wrong.

05-13-2016, 06:07 AM	#14
Mike Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: ASTON, PA. Posts: 725	Re: Third Worse Day Of My Model A Life-Window Crank Pins! Who sells this tool for removing pins ? Mike

05-13-2016, 10:05 AM	#16
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Third Worse Day Of My Model A Life-Window Crank Pins! Yep, I'd say the vinyl and excess thickness of the padding is the problem. I don't have any pictures of original panels to show though.

05-13-2016, 10:58 AM	#17
V8COOPMAN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON Posts: 11,128	Re: Third Worse Day Of My Model A Life-Window Crank Pins! Here's upside-up! DD __________________ *Click Links Below* __ ▼ *'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN* *T5 W/TORQUE TUBE*

05-13-2016, 12:19 PM	#22
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Third Worse Day Of My Model A Life-Window Crank Pins! I've heard of window crank shafts being too SHORT. One guy cut a piece from an OLD shaft & welded it to his shaft. Your window mechanism "might" NOT be an original?? Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

05-13-2016, 07:50 PM	#23
jimalabam Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lee County Alabama Posts: 828	Re: Third Worse Day Of My Model A Life-Window Crank Pins! I agree with Tom & DJ S. The door panel and/or material is too thick...