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06-23-2017, 10:39 AM | #1 |
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inspection nightmare
Took the coupe down to the inspection station this morning for the state annual inspection, the car has always started and ran good, no trouble with the inspection , passed easily but when I went to restart it kept stalling and backfiring. The engine was super hot and I thought the condenser had fried (modern type) so I borrowed the air hose and tried to cool things off, after a while it restarted but I had trouble keeping it running for a few minutes. After a while I was able to drive it home and it ran pretty good except a slight misfire at times. I got to thinking maybe the gas boiled so I'll le it cool down and see how a restart goes. Just curious, has anyone experienced a similar problem ??
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06-23-2017, 10:50 AM | #2 |
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Re: inspection nightmare
Yep, mine does the same thing if I have the crapahol gas in it and it boils.
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06-23-2017, 11:15 AM | #3 |
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Re: inspection nightmare
I know some members will question this, but try adding Marvel Mystery Oil to your gas. It could help with what you are experiencing.
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06-23-2017, 11:46 AM | #4 |
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Re: inspection nightmare
Yes it has happened to me. I added a 1/4" phenolic insulator between the carb and manifold to help keep the gas cooler.
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06-23-2017, 11:51 AM | #5 |
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Re: inspection nightmare
Are you guys running a down draft?
guess its a secret. Last edited by Russ/40; 06-23-2017 at 05:08 PM. |
06-23-2017, 11:52 AM | #6 |
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Re: inspection nightmare
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06-23-2017, 02:05 PM | #7 |
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Re: inspection nightmare
Thanks Big Hammer and WHN, I bought a couple of bottles and will add it this afternoon.
I started it up after the cooling period and it started and ran fine but I'll still add the MMO, probabl a couple of tablespoons to a half a tank. Barry B./ Ma. |
06-23-2017, 02:12 PM | #8 |
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Re: inspection nightmare
I had to switch to mid-range fuel instead of regular.
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06-23-2017, 02:56 PM | #9 |
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Location: Aiken, South Carolina
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Re: inspection nightmare
Add about 4 oz. to your gas tank, not both bottles. (I am sure you didn't mean you were going to add both bottles to your tank, but hey, just in case you didn't know....)
EDIT: Whoops I somehow neglected to read your entire post. However, add 4 oz. not just a couple tablespoons. JMHO |
06-23-2017, 03:10 PM | #10 |
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Re: inspection nightmare
4 oz to a full tank 2 oz to one half tank?
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06-23-2017, 03:43 PM | #11 | |
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Re: inspection nightmare
Quote:
Why is it that some Model As have trouble with ethanol in gas and some don't? Why do some As run fine on ethanol blend for years then suddenly develop a problem with it? I would think that if e10 made our cars run poorly that we'd all be experiencing the same symptoms. Is it a heat related issue? Altitude? Humidity? Some other factor (or factors) combined with the ethanol?
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06-23-2017, 04:24 PM | #12 | |
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Re: inspection nightmare
Quote:
John |
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06-23-2017, 04:27 PM | #13 |
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Re: inspection nightmare
I use MMO for the same reason. If I forget to add it and I am stuck in heavy traffic on a hot day, it runs poorly.
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06-23-2017, 05:57 PM | #14 | |
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Re: inspection nightmare
Quote:
Also consider the age of the fuel, air temp, humidity, engine condition, radiator condition, etc. |
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06-23-2017, 06:13 PM | #15 |
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Re: inspection nightmare
How about adding 4 oz. ATF to the tank full? I do use the MMO but sometimes I forget to take it and find myself out on the highway and the station is a minimart with no choice but the ATF. So far I have just skipped using it until I got where I could buy it. Often I use just 2 oz. per tank and it does fine. I started using it because of a stuck valve (zero PSI that hole) and just continued after that freed up so well. (Overnight with about a shot glass full in the errant cylinder, cranked it over, key off, to get the MMO around everywhere and next morning fired it up, went to coffee and been driving it almost daily since.)
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06-23-2017, 06:29 PM | #16 |
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Re: inspection nightmare
Here are the gas stations that sell ethanol free gas in the US...
https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp? With the exception of a few states, ethanol free gas is relatively close to everyone. If you feel that e10 is causing your problems, you might want to fill up with a few tanks of ethanol free gas to test that theory.
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06-23-2017, 07:18 PM | #17 |
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Re: Boiling Gasoline...
Barry B,
Common hot weather problem with a Model A. After a drive the fuel in the hot carburetor boils the gas and the fumes 'flood' the engine. Hard to re-start, runs poorly until the excess gas is drawn off. First check to see if your carburetor has a vented fuel bowl .... re-designed after mid 1929., which allows some of the excess fumes to escape. On a hot day drive, shut off the fuel valve allowing the engine to run until the carb is dry. Later turning on the gas valve allows 'cool' gas from the tank to fill the carb. Works for me. I suspect that adding of MMO or diesel to the gasoline lowers the volatility making it harder to boil off & flooding the engine. Hope some of this is helpful, JB |
06-23-2017, 07:20 PM | #18 |
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Re: inspection nightmare
Barry: glug, glug, glug, glug.
Paul |
06-23-2017, 07:51 PM | #19 |
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Re: inspection nightmare
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06-23-2017, 07:52 PM | #20 |
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Re: inspection nightmare
Like jb said. This happens all the time after a short stop when the carb bowl is very hot. We just pour some water on the bowl and that fixes it right away. The reason your car started running good after a while, is because it finally gets some cooler fuel into the bowl and it stays below the boiling point.
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06-23-2017, 08:02 PM | #21 |
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Re: inspection nightmare
On the right hand side of the country, alcohol must be more useful for other things.
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06-23-2017, 08:44 PM | #22 |
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Re: inspection nightmare
Adding about 2.5 ounces of regular crankcase oil to 10 gallons of Model A gasoline will work just great for helping to prevent E-10 vapor lock whether MMO is available or not available.
Our old square tank 1930's- 1950's outboard motors "all" used regular crankcase oil before today's 50:1 two-cycle oil which was much later invented and recommended for 2 cycle engines. Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 06-23-2017 at 08:45 PM. Reason: typo |
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06-24-2017, 06:57 AM | #23 | |
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Re: inspection nightmare
Quote:
The pumps say "up to 10%". That is true. It won't be over that, but it can be well under that. Under hood temperature is the wildcard. Some cars run hotter than others. Sit at a light idling and everything under there (carb and fuel) can get quite hot. In these conditions, I have to open my GAV and start out from the light staying in 1st gear, holding the RPMs up until the outside air cools everything off under the hood. You can feel the power kick in and the engine start to run right again when the carb is cooled off. Then I close the GAV back to normal running position and shift to 2nd. If I don't do the above, the engine stalls leaving the light.
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06-24-2017, 06:58 AM | #24 | |
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Re: Boiling Gasoline...
Quote:
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06-24-2017, 07:25 AM | #25 |
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Re: inspection nightmare
I run real gas and still have the problem stopping for a fuel stop on a tour on a hot day. I use MMO and it helps some. I found if on a hot day on tour I fuel... open hood and poor cool water on the fuel bowl (Not Ice Cold) and no issue. About a half bottle seems to do the trick. I would be afraid to poor ice cold water it might crack the fuel bowl. Also just letting it idle for about a minute or so will cool it down but seems like on tours folks want to roll right away.
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06-24-2017, 07:46 AM | #26 |
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Re: inspection nightmare
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As such I have enjoyed some people relating stories as to why they do not believe either in PM's. So on person related to how they had the typical engine 'vapor lock' problem for a few years. He tried all the fixes and none worked really. Then he had to take the engine apart for other reasons and he noticed the valve gaps were done wrong and uneven. So he redid the valve properly. When he put the engine together no more vapor lock. To approach this logically you have to think well only some cars ever have a problem. So on a tour a couple of cars are having a problem and they are all in the same conditions with the same gas. Right there tells me it is a build problem. What goes wrong, well that is the problem. What is more likely wrong is a bunch of little things. Timing off a tad, valves slightly off, maybe the water jacket is not cleaned out as well as it should be and they all add up- sometimes- to cause a problem. How many people are aware the valves need to have the gap set for how the metal expands. You can not just go by what the service bulletins say. You have to know the expansion rate of the metal. Doing the A engine right is not simple. People do not realize the A engine is a high precision built device. They poo poo that thought and think it is just an old engine why bother with accuracy. You really have to think your are building a race car engine as you approach the constuction of the engine. The A engine runs great if it is done right. You should not have to do any modern fixes to get it to be extremely reliable (well the burn out proof condenser is essential, no not the V8 one). |
06-24-2017, 08:25 AM | #27 |
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Re: inspection nightmare
I was definitely in the camp that said if you have fuel problems, there must be something wrong with your car because it doesn't happen to me. Until... going up Mt. Mitchell off of the Blue Ridge Parkway. I also had similar problems in Mississippi after hours of sustained 50mph driving. At one point I noticed rolling bubbles in the sediment bulb. It was hard to take a good picture of that, but I did get a picture of the giant bubble that formed as the moving bubbles stopped. I had a couple days with similar conditions and with multiple fill-ups per day I know it wasn't just one particular tank of gas. Higher octane gas didn't seem to help. It pains me to say it, but after adding MMO the problem went away over the next couple of days and 1000+ miles.
More information on the trip here: http://www.sheepisland.com/3000modela/ |
06-24-2017, 08:30 AM | #28 |
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Re: Boiling Gasoline...
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06-24-2017, 09:07 AM | #29 |
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Re: inspection nightmare
Barry B.
It might just be Inspection Stations. I too have suffered a dented ego at the same locations. I have long believed the remaining Model A's are here to keep us humble. First sign of a puffed up ego, they have a knack of embarrassing at the perfect spot, ie. Inspection Stations, entrance to the Hershey Show Car field on Saturday etc. John Carter; Great site about your tour through National Parks. I'm satisfied if I make it to the next town & back. Wife no longer wants to ride as she is tired of driving back with strange men in the front of a flat bed truck. Yup, it's tough...... JB |
06-24-2017, 09:23 AM | #30 | |
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Re: inspection nightmare
Quote:
the same as adding ATF to your fuel, its not really designed to burn clean. you are much much better off adding MMO or a good brand 2 cycle oil to your fuel for good upper cyl lubeing |
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06-24-2017, 09:15 PM | #31 |
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Re: inspection nightmare
If you decide to use ATF, avoid the types that have silicone in them.
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06-24-2017, 09:21 PM | #32 |
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Re: inspection nightmare
Wooden clothes pins on the gas line.
Some put tinfoil between the clothes pins and the tube. Don't ask me why it works. Joe K
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06-25-2017, 08:46 AM | #33 |
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Re: inspection nightmare
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06-25-2017, 10:02 AM | #34 |
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Re: inspection nightmare
John_Carter, loved your blog of your long distance tour. Would love to do a tour like that myself. Thanks for sharing. Jeff
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06-25-2017, 11:33 AM | #35 | |
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Re: inspection nightmare
Quote:
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06-25-2017, 01:05 PM | #36 |
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Re: inspection nightmare
well for me the reason to add some MMO or 2 cycle oil is for some top end lube as the new oils have no zink and other good stuff in them. to ea his own however
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06-25-2017, 11:58 PM | #37 | |
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Re: inspection nightmare
Quote:
If someone wants to think my gas boils because I haven't properly tuned my car, well, they can think what ever they please. |
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06-26-2017, 06:37 AM | #38 | |
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Re: inspection nightmare
Quote:
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06-26-2017, 09:17 AM | #39 | |
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Re: inspection nightmare
Quote:
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