Can't get engine started after changing timing gear

[jg61hawk]

It ran fine for awhile... your problem is somewhere in wiring as you must have moved a ton of stuff to open the timing cover.....bad ground, shorted wire...are you using a fuse, if not you may have a direct short in old wiring you moved to access timing cover...if no fuse put one in see if it blows. You don't have a timing problem...in my often mistaken but cocky opinion.

[philcobill]

Originally Posted by 1955cj5

That looks correct.....

Here are a couple of pictures. Do you still have the old cam gear? You can compare dimple locations....it being in the wrong place seems like a long shot but anything is possible.

Compared the two gears as you suggest, and the placement of the pins and the indentation are the same as far as I can determine.

[jg61hawk]

The only problem I still have is why does nkaminar's car grow red hair and fly through the air....that is definitely a mechanical problem not fuel related. I do see Les Andrews addressed red hair growing on the exhaust pipe in chapter 3 (preventative maintenance). !!!

[jg61hawk]

Any chance of addressing my questions in post # 40?

[Conaway2]

Originally Posted by philcobill

I ended up taking off the timing gear cover. There is a "0" on the crankshaft gear opposite the indentation on the timing gear. Is this where the timing gear should be placed? If it is correct, then I have some other issue. Is it possible that the indentation is off? I think someone mentioned that possibility in this thread.

That is an odd-looking mark on the crankshaft gear - unlike any I’ve previously seen. The marks are usually deeper or more pronounced.

If you hand-crank the engine around, do any other marks show up on the crank gear ?

Jim

[philcobill]

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Originally Posted by jg61hawk

Here is a page from the red book. It looks like you did the timing correctly assuming the gear went in smoothly as the book mentions the alignment pins are off center. Not being a jerk but we all said try checking spark and fuel as you said it did run for a short while and ran as smooth as silk. Did you try starting fluid, grounding the plugs, changing the condenser, jumping out the amp meter across the junction box....these are all very valid and fast checks? I know you're probably pissed off so don't take this the wrong way. It's just a lot of fuel problems are electrical, and a lot of electrical problems are fuel and....you get the point.....we need to trace this out logically. They are just lawn mower motors on steroids'.

No problem. I know that the Model A's are renown for being mechanically simple, but I am still behind the learning curve. I am a 65-year-old retiree who is an "old dog learning new tricks." I feel like I am a 20-year-old when it comes to understanding Model A's. Anyway, I fully appreciate your understanding and your suggestions to help me learn how to get my car going.

[philcobill]

Originally Posted by Conaway2

That is an odd-looking mark on the crankshaft gear - unlike any I’ve previously seen. The marks are usually deeper or more pronounced.

If you hand-crank the engine around, do any other marks show up on the crank gear ?

Jim

I am not sure what my dad did with this car. I imagine he tried to pick up "new" stuff at swap meets etc to make the car more modern. I will check out the crankshaft gear as you suggest.



The car also has a "higher" compression cylinder aluminum head. I believe its compression ratio is 5.5 to 1. I would love to ask him what all he did to the car, but he passed away 5 years ago.


Bill

[philcobill]

Originally Posted by jg61hawk

Here is a page from the red book. It looks like you did the timing correctly assuming the gear went in smoothly as the book mentions the alignment pins are off center. Not being a jerk but we all said try checking spark and fuel as you said it did run for a short while and ran as smooth as silk. Did you try starting fluid, grounding the plugs, changing the condenser, jumping out the amp meter across the junction box....these are all very valid and fast checks? I know you're probably pissed off so don't take this the wrong way. It's just a lot of fuel problems are electrical, and a lot of electrical problems are fuel and....you get the point.....we need to trace this out logically. They are just lawn mower motors on steroids'.

I am systematically going through the checks you mentioned. At this point, I imagine that the problem is electrical. So, I will be working that angle the next day or two.


Bill

[jquinlan]

This might sound too simple but one item that wasn't mentioned is the behavior you describe might happen if spark plugs are terribly fouled. I dealt with similar symptoms this week on one of my Model 'A's. Tried to fix and adjust everything in the world until I realized the plugs were fouled. After replacing the spark plugs it runs sweet again.

[PC/SR]

One problem I had somewhat similar to yours that drove me crazy for awhile was the metal covering over the wire that goes from the switch to the distributor was intermittently shorting out. That metal cover goes to ground. If it touches any of the connections in the junction box or any other "hot" wire the engine will die. On mine, bumps and vibrations would short it out intermittently and the engine would die and miracously come back to life. Wrap that wire cover with black electrical tape to insulate it. You mentioned screwing the connector into the distributor so I assume you moved that wire in some way,

Also double check that the "button" on the end of the wire from the switch does not push the metal tab that the "button" pushes into contact with the frame of the distributor. I put a piece of tape behind that "button" contact tab to insulate it.

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

Originally Posted by Conaway2

That is an odd-looking mark on the crankshaft gear - unlike any I’ve previously seen. The marks are usually deeper or more pronounced.

If you hand-crank the engine around, do any other marks show up on the crank gear ?

Jim

That’s an ok mark, and it’s on the correct tooth. One to the right of the keyway.

[jg61hawk]

First is it fuel, electric or mechanical.... Shoot it with starting fluid with the gas OFF. See if it fires. Then see if it runs...then turn on gas and fire it again. No fire...ok it's spark....Fire Ok ok it's fuel. Come on ....Think it through this thread is jumping like a toad.....I said what I would I do several times.....I don't mean to sound like a jerk believe me...but it's only one of three things: Fuel, spark or timing. They each can be separated and tested relatively easy if they are not mixed together......and you don't have a timing problem if it ran like described.

[jerrytocci]

Look at rotor as you hand crank with ignition off. The back fire could have shreded the gear

[jerrytocci]

hand crank and watch rotor

[Osage Orange]

You said it ran for a short while as smooth as silk? It isn't timing gear misalignment. That won't ever run smooth one moment, not so the next. Simplest next step is starting fluid. If it won't start with that, stop looking at fuel and pour all your attention on the spark and electrical. Change the condenser first. I'm betting it is that, but know from experience that the wire from the switch to the distributor is notorious for shorting out, so that's my second bet, doubling down to get my money back.

[eagle]

Be careful with starting fluid, a tiny bit is ok but it'll short out the plugs and then you have another issue.

[philcobill]

Originally Posted by jerrytocci

Look at rotor as you hand crank with ignition off. The back fire could have shreded the gear

I took the timing gear cover off and the gear looks just fine.

[philcobill]

I believe that the problem is not fuel, at least from a flow aspect. I disconnected the fuel line with the under the tank valve off at the carb and placed a container under the end. When I turned the valve back on, the fuel spewed out like it was supposed to.



Also, I tried three different carbs.


1. Tillotson - This one may have been partially clogged. Got the car started but the engine sputter (from a clog?.) Was able to drive it a bit.

2. Loaner Zenith - Got the car started but it backfired and quit after idling for less than a minute. Was unable to re-start


3. Original Zenith - Unable to get car to start at all. It catches for a few revs and quits.


So, I am going to concentrate on electrical for now.

[1crosscut]

In your first post you said you had put in new modern points. Did you do this at the same time as changing the timing gear?

If that is the case I'm thinking you should go back with the original style points.

[philcobill]

Originally Posted by 1crosscut

In your first post you said you had put in new modern points. Did you do this at the same time as changing the timing gear?

If that is the case I'm thinking you should go back with the original style points.

Yes, I changed the points at the same time. The points on the Nu Rex upper plate were modern and needed to be changed.