Dead Pertronix Coil

[Dirtrack49]

Hello all,

Has anyone ran into a Pertronix coil that went south? I installed a Pertronix 40611 12 volt coil on my 30 Town Sedan back in November of 2019 due to the PO's oil filled coil heating up and shutting down the spark.
The other day, went out to start the car and nothing. Had a chance to look at it today and found that one side of the coil was not getting 12 volts when checked. Pulled off the coil and found no 3 ohm reading on the primary. Installed old oil filled coil and the car started right up.
Should I just get myself another Pertronix and hope for the best, or buy something else? Anyone have a preference for an epoxy filled 12 volt coil?

Tom L.

[Synchro909]

I had one turn to a turd in short time. I replaced it with whatever I could buy in a spare parts shop in the middle of no where. Who knows where it was made - China, probably but it has already lasted several times longer than the Pertronix one did.

[Patrick L.]

Hmm, that surprises me. Have you contacted them ? Maybe they'll replace it.

There should be other epoxy coils out there. Some have mentioned that they like Bosch.

[Dirtrack49]

It surprises me too. Thought Pertronix was the only way to go. It lasted just under 9 months. Looked at the box, it states 90 day warranty. It's made in China. I see that if you buy one from Advance Auto, they will extend the warranty to 1 year. So...I might do that, or look into buying a Bosch. I think the Bosch is made in Brazil or Mexico. Hard to believe but oh so true. Was wondering what people have used for a 12 volt coil. If you want it to sit upside down as in the Model A, you need one with epoxy in it.
I have a 50 year old MGB that still is running the original coil. Bet it says Lucas on it. Bet you can't get one made in England either???

Tom L.

Tom

[Jack Shaft]

Lucas? We referred to Lucas as the 'prince of darkness' when I rode Triumphs . Millions of air cooled volkswagens ran an inverted bosch blue coil.Bosch standards are met no matter where the part is made.Pertronix flamethrower 40k max output,bosch blue 35k.

[Dirtrack49]

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I have owned the 'prince of darkness' in many a vehicle over my lifetime of 71 years. I guess I have been real lucky that I seldom had a problem with Lucas, with the exception of making sure I had good electrical grounds.
Maybe I will try a Bosch, even if they are no longer built in Germany.
Thinking of which, I wonder how many of us would still buy stuff made in the USA, Germany, Japan and England if we still had the choice? I think it would be worth the extra cost for the quality that we would receive.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

Hmm, that surprises me. Have you contacted them ? Maybe they'll replace it.

There should be other epoxy coils out there. Some have mentioned that they like Bosch.

No point doing that. I'd have to pay postage even if they supplied another free. If they wanted the old one back for examination, I'd be up for double postage and a new coil costs less than postage one way. Just not worth it.

[Aarongriffey]

A few years ago there were several messages on the internet complaining about the Petronix coils that were made in Mexico.
I have had nothing but grief with 6 volt NAPA coils.
When you need a 6 volt coil for an antique car tell them it’s for a ‘65 Volkswagen.
If you need a 12 volt coil tell them it’s for a ‘67 Volkswagen or a ‘67 MGB.
The have a built in resistor so you by pass any resister the car might already have.
I had to change the coil on my MGB last week. The 5 or6 year old NAPA coil was giving me trouble as soon as it got hot. And it didn’t start easily. Sometimes backfired on a hard pull.
Sure starts & runs great now with the new coil.
I use the same 12 volt coil on my F1 since I converted it to 12 volts in 2015.

[Mike Peters]

This is bad news for the modern hi tech coils on today's market. Makes me wonder what the difference is between coils made today compared to the 90 year old originals?

This is an original slant pole coil used for 28-29 Model A. It came off a rusty chassis I bought out of a neighbor's barn where it had lived for at least the last 60 or 70 years sitting idle. I painted it and put it on a car and ran it for a year. Car always started and ran well, but I took it off in favor of a newer 6V coil for fear it would fail out on the road. I think I will put it back on the car and not worry about it.

[ryanheacox]

Yep, I grabbed a couple untested original coils for cheap last year and they both work just fine, nice long blue spark. I do carry a spare just in case... it is still a 90 year old part but on the other hand it's definitely been battle proven at this point

[Kurt in NJ]

I have a 80s Ricks "show quality script coil"---- script can over Japan oil filled coil, been mounted terminals down for over 30 years, very strong spark, no leaks, many years drive MGB, the Lucas coil (oil filled) mounted terminals down by factory, no failures/leaks, the Bosch aircooled VW coils used in the Koehler generator would eventually leak tar and quit(long dwell time because only 1 cylinder
Nowadays I replace a lot of new looking coils used on older cars, , even the Bosch "blue" coils don't last, replace a few that failed in days

[Purdy Swoft]

My Pertronix flame thrower coil is holding up well after fourteen years !!!

[Patrick L.]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

My Pertronix flame thrower coil is holding up well after fourteen years !!!

Hmm, maybe thats why. It was made long enough ago to still be of good quality.
Mine [ 6v epoxy], I think, is at least 5 if not close to 10 years old.

[Patrick L.]

Our original coils were tar filled and rarely failed. Like anything though it can be subject to failure at any time.

I would think it depends on just how much oil is put in some coils could relate to longevity.

[Jack Shaft]

Coils are like any other electrical component,they need a clean dependable steady source of current.When one fails its important to check primary voltage under load..install your new coil,start engine and check voltage (at the negative side on 6v positive ground,or positive side on 12v neg ground)... if you see a big voltage drop with the engine running this could be from a poor connection or ignition switch,this will raise coil heat causing premature failure.

[Purdy Swoft]

I recently converted my september 29 to twelve volts and installed an epoxy filled Pertronix flame thrower coil , it runs just as well as my 31 tudor that has been running the Pertronix coil for fourteen years .

[katy]

I have a used one like this off of a '65 Ford, I carry it for a spare, I tested it on the CCPU and it ran excellent on a number of runs. On the '65 it was used w/a ballast resistor, but it works good on 6 volts.

[Dirtrack49]

Jack Shaft,
Interesting observation. Something that I had not considered.
Maybe there is something that I am overlooking which caused the coil to fail in 9 months and about 500 miles.
As I go through this car that I bought a year ago, I am finding a lot of mickey mouse stuff done by the PO. Maybe my ignition switch is junk?
When I get another coil, I will do the checks. Thanks for the info. And thanks to everyone else for your input on this subject.

Tom L.

[McMimmcs]

Originally Posted by Dirtrack49

It surprises me too. Thought Pertronix was the only way to go. It lasted just under 9 months. Looked at the box, it states 90 day warranty. It's made in China. I see that if you buy one from Advance Auto, they will extend the warranty to 1 year. So...I might do that, or look into buying a Bosch. I think the Bosch is made in Brazil or Mexico. Hard to believe but oh so true. Was wondering what people have used for a 12 volt coil. If you want it to sit upside down as in the Model A, you need one with epoxy in it.
I have a 50 year old MGB that still is running the original coil. Bet it says Lucas on it. Bet you can't get one made in England either???

Tom L.

Tom

Must be a Major shock for all these loyal Pertronix Barners to find out That one of their best quality products was made in the forbidden country, China no less. Heaven forbid, will wonders never cease ?

[1930-Pickup]

Originally Posted by Dirtrack49

Jack Shaft,
Interesting observation. Something that I had not considered.
Maybe there is something that I am overlooking which caused the coil to fail in 9 months and about 500 miles.
As I go through this car that I bought a year ago, I am finding a lot of mickey mouse stuff done by the PO. Maybe my ignition switch is junk?
When I get another coil, I will do the checks. Thanks for the info. And thanks to everyone else for your input on this subject.

Tom L.

So common. Soooo disturbingly common.

[1930-Pickup]

Originally Posted by McMimmcs

Must be a Major shock for all these loyal Pertronix Barners to find out That one of their best quality products was made in the forbidden country, China no less. Heaven forbid, will wonders never cease ?

"Made in USA" or "made in china" are indicators (pointers, if you will). It tells you a general probability of what Quality level to expect.

To expect "absolutes" (rules that don't break, or blank/white, or yes/no) is a simplistic view of a complex issue.

[Licensed to kill]

Originally Posted by 1930-Pickup

"Made in USA" or "made in china" are indicators (pointers, if you will). It tells you a general probability of what Quality level to expect.

To expect "absolutes" (rules that don't break, or blank/white, or yes/no) is a simplistic view of a complex issue.

I believe that "Made in China" is NOT a quality indicator if it is a known, respected brand manufactured under that brands authorization as the company would have strict quality perimeters for the company to adhere to. However, generic "Made in China" is typically crap and there is also the issue with counterfeit "name brand" Made in China to be wary of.

[McMimmcs]

Originally Posted by 1930-Pickup

"Made in USA" or "made in china" are indicators (pointers, if you will). It tells you a general probability of what Quality level to expect.

To expect "absolutes" (rules that don't break, or blank/white, or yes/no) is a simplistic view of a complex issue.

Thank you for supporting my belief that just because it was made in China doesn’t automatically mean it is junk, contrary to the beliefs of many barners. !

[Jack Shaft]

We created the China machine,exploiting cheap labor is the ugly side of capitalism.Chinese workers are motivated,goal oriented and strive to achieve,fear and starvation tend to create good workers.American money exploits this,like it or not.The American workforce of today won't fill the demand,lazy,entitled for the most part,they don't have the ethic or desire to compete.

[McMimmcs]

Originally Posted by Jack Shaft

We created the China machine,exploiting cheap labor is the ugly side of capitalism.Chinese workers are motivated,goal oriented and strive to achieve,fear and starvation tend to create good workers.American money exploits this,like it or not.The American workforce of today won't fill the demand,lazy,entitled for the most part,they don't have the ethic or desire to compete.

I couldn’t agree less! The American workforce is anything but lazy for the most part. A very biased statement to say the least!

[updraught]

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Mostly 5 star reviews except this one:

""1 year life span like clockwork
4 years ago
New these really put out a difference you can feel more so on a small engine but they fade over time quite quickly. I have found they are very vibration sensitive so make sure you do not mount them directly to any engine.
DANIEL · Reviewed on Summit Racing Equipment"

[Purdy Swoft]

It really doesn't matter to me where a product is made as long as it works well . Mine still works great after many years of use .

[Jack Shaft]

Originally Posted by McMimmcs

I couldn’t agree less! The American workforce is anything but lazy for the most part. A very biased statement to say the least!

You haven't worked with the youth of today,I do daily..out of ten who choose to try to be a mechanic maybe one has the actual work ethic to succeed.Biased? more like realistic,based on experienced.

[Dirtrack49]

Looked at a lot of past threads on coil problems. I am thinking I need to go through the entire electrical set up from the PO who made this a 12 volt negative ground system. Not so concerned about it being 12 volts, but what I have found in other areas of this vehicle, tells me that he probably did a poor job on the electrical as well.
One more question for those who have switched over to a 12 volt system. Has anyone used a Beru or Duralast coil? Are they oil or epoxy filled? I am finding that a lot of suppliers are out of stock on Pertronix 40611 and Bosch 00012 coils. The one's that do have them are charging accordingly. Guess this is true with about everything nowadays due to factory shut downs.

Tom L.

[Synchro909]

The comment above about lazy and entitled young people over there is eerily similar to the situation here. IMO, the trouble is that they are told from a young age that they can have/do anything and be whatever they like without being told that they have to work for it and that comes back to a failure by our generation. It will take a severe jolt to bring reality into their awareness. Even though the virus situation in the US is very bad, I don't think even that will do the trick. We can only live in some state between hope they will improve and fear of what it will take to do it.

[katy]

Are they oil or epoxy filled?

To test if a coil is oil or epoxy filled, hold it horizontal, up close to your ear, and shake it back and forth, if'n it's oil filled you'll hear the oil sloshing.

[Jeff/Illinois]

I've been having similar issues with poor quality parts that are flooding the market today.
Kinda takes the fun out of the hobby. Big time
It's getting real old.

We all squawk about the parts from Rick's in the early 70's, but a lot of the pure crap coming over from China today makes Rick's Argentina parts look like NOS.

[Purdy Swoft]

The only problem that I had with Ricks was that they didn't have a lot of the parts that they advertised !!! After a lot of back orders , I changed vendors .

[Jack Shaft]

Joblot and Mark Auto..

[Licensed to kill]

Originally Posted by McMimmcs

I couldn’t agree less! The American workforce is anything but lazy for the most part. A very biased statement to say the least!

I suspect that you either have never had people working for you or, if you have, only a few and have been EXTREMELY fortunate in your hiring. To be fair though, most people that own a business and hire people are workaholics by nature. Most people that are content to be an employee just want to put in their time and get a pay check so these two type can clash. Of course there are lazy business owners and real go-getter employees but they are the exception rather than the rule.

[Patrick L.]

There seems to be for lack of a better word a caste system today.

There is the group of kids that are stupid, lazy, don't want to work and parents that have not taught them any different or don't want them working.

Then there is a group of kids that are sharp, smarter than I ever was at that age, ambitious and want to learn and work.

The distance between these groups seems to be getting greater.
I think some of the problem can be blamed on the government regarding some of the labor laws. Here you can't mow grass until you're 14.

When I was growing up our state started 'work-fare'. If you wanted your welfare check you had to do some work for it. So we took some folks on, These people refused to work and were as dumb as a stone fence. Or they acted that dumb. You didn't dare let them do anything, even sweep floors or clean windows. And you couldn't show them how, they didn't want to know. By coffee break time they left, they still got their welfare check though. And I was far younger than than they were.

The amount of people here taking advantage of the system is staggering. But on the other side of the fence there are folks that are working their fannies off to get ahead.
Its just human nature as well as some nurture thrown in the mix.

[Dirtrack49]

As a final note on this thread, I believe I might have found the reason why the coil shorted out. Possibly too much heat build up from having my points gaped too close. The points block must have worn down enough to where I measured only .012 gap. Or, maybe a combination of a poor quality coil along with my mistake of letting the point gap get too small.

Tom L.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Dirtrack49

As a final note on this thread, I believe I might have found the reason why the coil shorted out. Possibly too much heat build up from having my points gaped too close. The points block must have worn down enough to where I measured only .012 gap. Or, maybe a combination of a poor quality coil along with my mistake of letting the point gap get too small.

Tom L.

I can't see that causing the coil to fail. There are many owners who have had their cars stop altogether because the points closed down to zero. Those coils would have tolerated worse than yours and yet they kept going.
A friend who has been involved with Model As for nearly all his life once told me to mount the coil the other way up (ie, terminals to the top) when I told him I had another coil fail. That was about 3 in 2 years. I have 4 Model As and since I did as he said, I have had no failures in about 10 years. Even the Chinese coils held up.

[Dirtrack49]

Thanks Synchro for the input. My first thinking were the points gap. Ironically, I bought another Pertronix 40611 epoxy coil. Just because I was fed up with Bosch and got a good discount on the Pertronix. I am going to mount it upside down since it is epoxy. If this one goes, I most likely will use one of my old coils and set them tower up.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Dirtrack49

Thanks Synchro for the input. My first thinking were the points gap. Ironically, I bought another Pertronix 40611 epoxy coil. Just because I was fed up with Bosch and got a good discount on the Pertronix. I am going to mount it upside down since it is epoxy. If this one goes, I most likely will use one of my old coils and set them tower up.

You'll need a longer HT wire from the coil to the top of the distributor. I suggest you either carry a longer lead with you or do the change in your workshop rather than the side of the road.

[Aarongriffey]

I’m really sick of Lucas jokes since I’ve worked at three dealers that sold British cars since 1963 then Land Rovers the last 3 years and I’m in an MG club, etc. prince of darkness ha ha
But seriously, Lucas now makes vacuum cleaners..............
they always wanted to make something that doesn’t suck.

[updraught]

"Did you hear the one about the guy that peeked into a Land Rover and asked the owner "How can you tell one switch from another at night? They all look the same. " - "He replied, "It does not matter which one you use, nothing happens !""
http://www.mez.co.uk/lucas.html

When we were in the UK in 2001 there was much discussion as the EU was putting an 800 watt limit on vacuum cleaners to save energy. I think this led to Brexit.

[Purdy Swoft]

Carbon tracks from the tower area of the coil that reach up to the metal tube will short out the coil . Carbon tracks can be scraped off with a pocket knife and the cioil may work again . Carbon tracks on the coil is mentioned in the service bulletins .

[Purdy Swoft]

Carbon tracks from the tower area up to the metal housing of the coil will cause a short . Carbon tracks can be scraped off with a pocket knife and the coil should work again / This is mentioned in the service bulletins .

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

Carbon tracks from the tower area up to the metal housing of the coil will cause a short . Carbon tracks can be scraped off with a pocket knife and the coil should work again / This is mentioned in the service bulletins .

I agree. Carbon tracking causes a lot more problems with ignition systems than people realize. It helps to occasionally wipe off coils, distributor bodies and caps (inside & out) as a preventive measure.

[Jack Shaft]

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Originally Posted by Aarongriffey

I’m really sick of Lucas jokes since I’ve worked at three dealers that sold British cars since 1963 then Land Rovers the last 3 years and I’m in an MG club, etc. prince of darkness ha ha
But seriously, Lucas now makes vacuum cleaners..............
they always wanted to make something that doesn’t suck.

Thats going in the top hits file ...it takes a sense of humor to own or work on British iron..I did JCB backhoes...when a customer would ask why I would.tell the what JCB meant..'Just Cause its British...

[Bill Goddard]

After reading many posts on this forum in the past months I have learned that oil-filled coils should be mounted terminals up on an A. If they are tar or epoxy-filled they can be mounted either way. Original Ford A coils were tar filled and - I assume - were mounted terminals down because they fit better under the hood. My coil is a $15 oil-filled and is mounted terminals up. I just did this recently and will report results in about 5 years.

[Patrick L.]

As been said many vehicles had oil coils mounted upside down which worked just fine for decades. My thought is these coils were better assembled, they were probably completely full of oil.