The Ford Barn

Russ/40 · 05-18-2010, 10:45 PM

Well, I've joined the club of those who break water outlet necks. I used a gasket on it and did not use the paper match trick. I figured the gasket was thin enough I would not have to worry. Well, it was fine on initial assembly, and appeared OK after the first retorque. I started it up today and ran it long enough to warm it up. All was OK when I shut it down. I went in the house and came out 30 minutes later to find the garage floor flooded, and the water neck broken. I thought if it wasent broken after torquing it would be OK. MISTAKE So to others who think it won't happen to them, it may not right away, but it will later. I destroyed a perfect original. Next one goes on with NO gasket and a touch of RTV.

Model A Man · 05-18-2010, 10:49 PM

I sand mine flat before installing

Preacher · 05-18-2010, 11:34 PM

T*** y** s*

Tom Wesenberg · 05-18-2010, 11:44 PM

I've seen the exact thing happen with the paper gasket. I heard a crack at a friends house and it seemed to come from his car. Checked it out and sure enough the water neck had just broken an ear off.

I've had good luck using the copper gasket. I think the paper gasket gets wet and soggy and thins out under the ear, then you have a snap.

pat in Santa Cruz · 05-18-2010, 11:56 PM

I file the surfaces flat if they need it and use Ultra Gray RTV without any gasket. Been doing that for 5 years now and have not broken one water neck, and no leaks either.

Mike V. Florida · 05-19-2010, 12:04 AM

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How was it done back when? I cannot believe Ford would have gone through a bunch of water necks?

Jim/GA · 05-19-2010, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

How was it done back when? I cannot believe Ford would have gone through a bunch of water necks?

It was done with a thick gasket; two thin pieces of copper with some gasket material sandwiched between.

peters180a/170b · 05-19-2010, 05:50 AM

I have installed these time and time again with no problem. I use "ONLY" copper gasket ..BUT i keep some necks extra's on hand. :>)

2manycars · 05-19-2010, 06:26 AM

The original gasket was made just like a head gasket, with copper sandwiching a filler, probably asbestos. the paper gasket is junk, and should never be used, and the so called match trick is a lame attempt to overcome a bad gasket idea. If the correct original type gasket cannot be found, a thin layer of red high temp RTV on clean, flat head and outlet surfaces will never leak. Using RTV will also make the torque value more relevant on those two head studs, as there will only be one gasket to compress.

SteveM · 05-19-2010, 07:14 AM

For the ignorant among us, what is the issue with the water neck that causes breakage and what is the "match trick"?

Steve

zzlegend · 05-19-2010, 07:16 AM

I have used copper gaskets on 2 motors and not a problem.

Jerry Parr WI · 05-19-2010, 07:43 AM

As you discovered the paper gasket is the culprit. Works fine when dry but becomes mushy when wet. The retorque then squeezes out the soft paper at the edge, breaking the water outlet. The match trick helps but the paper match will also become soft. The copper gasket works because the copper keeps the water away from the filler. I prefer the no gasket method.

kenparker · 05-19-2010, 08:08 AM

I file the two surfaces flat until I, using prussian blue as a mating surface check, have a 95% contack between two surfaces. Then using thin layer of RTV torque the neck down and havent broken one YET using this method.

John LaVoy · 05-19-2010, 08:29 AM

I have used the RTV for years with out leaks or broken water neck.

Marco Tahtaras · 05-19-2010, 08:57 AM

I'll be the fourth person to emphasize both surfaces must be FLAT!

Russ/40 · 05-19-2010, 10:24 AM

The explanation given, that the paper gasket gets wet, and squishes out on the retorque sure sounds logical to me. Do I dare to use the copper gasket, or just go with no gasket? Anyone ever have one brake with the original type copper gasket?

Special Coupe Frank · 05-19-2010, 11:31 AM

Do the repro cast-iron necks also break ?

I just got a new one from Snyder's with the tapping for a temp sender; don't want to destroy it...

Mitch//pa · 05-19-2010, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Special Coupe Frank

Do the repro cast-iron necks also break ?

I just got a new one from Snyder's with the tapping for a temp sender; don't want to destroy it...

i was wondering about the repos also i cracked an original but the repo has been on and off many times and never cracked

0rg0 · 05-19-2010, 12:04 PM

Glad I read this. What about aluminum necks ? I have an offset generator mount, and needed to get a neck that shoots out at a different angle, and the one I found is aluminum.

Art Bjornestad · 05-19-2010, 01:47 PM

A while back someone remarked that Henry did not make a dime on Model A's, he made his money selling replacement necks.

I thought that this was so funny that I put it on a sign on my garage wall........right next to a broken neck.

I now use grey gasket maker and just smile at the words of Anon.

05-18-2010, 10:45 PM	#1
Russ/40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Santee, California Posts: 3,505	They said it would happen Well, I've joined the club of those who break water outlet necks. I used a gasket on it and did not use the paper match trick. I figured the gasket was thin enough I would not have to worry. Well, it was fine on initial assembly, and appeared OK after the first retorque. I started it up today and ran it long enough to warm it up. All was OK when I shut it down. I went in the house and came out 30 minutes later to find the garage floor flooded, and the water neck broken. I thought if it wasent broken after torquing it would be OK. MISTAKE So to others who think it won't happen to them, it may not right away, but it will later. I destroyed a perfect original. Next one goes on with NO gasket and a touch of RTV.

05-18-2010, 10:49 PM	#2
Model A Man Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sarasota Florida Posts: 604	Re: They said it would happen I sand mine flat before installing

05-18-2010, 11:34 PM	#3
Preacher Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 198	Re: They said it would happen T* y s* __________________ If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is ... http://tcmafc.org/

05-18-2010, 11:44 PM	#4
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: They said it would happen I've seen the exact thing happen with the paper gasket. I heard a crack at a friends house and it seemed to come from his car. Checked it out and sure enough the water neck had just broken an ear off. I've had good luck using the copper gasket. I think the paper gasket gets wet and soggy and thins out under the ear, then you have a snap.

05-18-2010, 11:56 PM	#5
pat in Santa Cruz Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: santa cruz, calif Posts: 2,011	Re: They said it would happen I file the surfaces flat if they need it and use Ultra Gray RTV without any gasket. Been doing that for 5 years now and have not broken one water neck, and no leaks either.

05-19-2010, 12:04 AM	#6
Mike V. Florida Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 14,054	Re: They said it would happen Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) How was it done back when? I cannot believe Ford would have gone through a bunch of water necks? __________________ What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II

05-19-2010, 05:50 AM	#8
peters180a/170b Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Putnam Valley N.Y. Posts: 2,151	Re: They said it would happen I have installed these time and time again with no problem. I use "ONLY" copper gasket ..BUT i keep some necks extra's on hand. :>)

05-19-2010, 06:26 AM	#9
2manycars Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern CT Posts: 2,732	Re: They said it would happen The original gasket was made just like a head gasket, with copper sandwiching a filler, probably asbestos. the paper gasket is junk, and should never be used, and the so called match trick is a lame attempt to overcome a bad gasket idea. If the correct original type gasket cannot be found, a thin layer of red high temp RTV on clean, flat head and outlet surfaces will never leak. Using RTV will also make the torque value more relevant on those two head studs, as there will only be one gasket to compress.

05-19-2010, 07:14 AM	#10
SteveM Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Connecticut Posts: 187	Re: They said it would happen For the ignorant among us, what is the issue with the water neck that causes breakage and what is the "match trick"? Steve

05-19-2010, 07:16 AM	#11
zzlegend Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Reseda, Calif. Posts: 2,188	Re: They said it would happen I have used copper gaskets on 2 motors and not a problem.

05-19-2010, 07:43 AM	#12
Jerry Parr WI Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 619	Re: They said it would happen As you discovered the paper gasket is the culprit. Works fine when dry but becomes mushy when wet. The retorque then squeezes out the soft paper at the edge, breaking the water outlet. The match trick helps but the paper match will also become soft. The copper gasket works because the copper keeps the water away from the filler. I prefer the no gasket method.

05-19-2010, 08:08 AM	#13
kenparker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Van, Texas Posts: 1,122	Re: They said it would happen I file the two surfaces flat until I, using prussian blue as a mating surface check, have a 95% contack between two surfaces. Then using thin layer of RTV torque the neck down and havent broken one YET using this method.

05-19-2010, 08:57 AM	#15
Marco Tahtaras Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,099	Re: They said it would happen I'll be the fourth person to emphasize both surfaces must be FLAT! __________________ http://www.abarnyard.com/

05-19-2010, 10:24 AM	#16
Russ/40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Santee, California Posts: 3,505	Re: They said it would happen The explanation given, that the paper gasket gets wet, and squishes out on the retorque sure sounds logical to me. Do I dare to use the copper gasket, or just go with no gasket? Anyone ever have one brake with the original type copper gasket?

05-19-2010, 11:31 AM	#17
Special Coupe Frank Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northeast Penna Posts: 2,108	Re: They said it would happen Do the repro cast-iron necks also break ? I just got a new one from Snyder's with the tapping for a temp sender; don't want to destroy it...

05-19-2010, 12:04 PM	#19
0rg0 Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Edmonton Posts: 34	Re: They said it would happen Glad I read this. What about aluminum necks ? I have an offset generator mount, and needed to get a neck that shoots out at a different angle, and the one I found is aluminum.

05-19-2010, 01:47 PM	#20
Art Bjornestad Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Westlake Village, CA Posts: 477	Re: They said it would happen A while back someone remarked that Henry did not make a dime on Model A's, he made his money selling replacement necks. I thought that this was so funny that I put it on a sign on my garage wall........right next to a broken neck. I now use grey gasket maker and just smile at the words of Anon.