Woven Linings/Cast Drums

[Synchro909]

Ryan has closed the last thread by me on this topic and for good reason. I'm trying again to see if I can entice Randy Gross to respond for all of those of us who were awaiting his input. That thread created quite a bit of interest so I'm sure there are many who would appreciate Randy's comments. Does anybody know Randy personally?
I won't name names but the person who destroyed the previous thread has to know it was he who spoiled it for all. To he and others, please keep it nice. A little respect costs nothing but has huge rewards.

[Mitch//pa]

Here is the link to find the information that your looking for, or if you wish to converse via PM..
Re-read Randy's last response
Good Luck
https://fordbarn.com/forum/member.php?u=3883

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

Here is the link to find the information that your looking for, or if you wish to converse via PM..
Re-read Randy's last response
Good Luck
https://fordbarn.com/forum/member.php?u=3883

Thanks MItch, PM sent

[TerryH]

I believe the person who caused the damage has been banned from the site, but the damage has already been done. Hopefully Randy will consider coming back, however few, if any, of those many others who have left have returned. The collective knowledge lost is staggering.....

[160B]

Here is my take on this. I have purchased drums from Randy and I am very satisfied. In response to grey cast iron or ductile cast iron here is my findings:

Cast Iron drums: The Model A Times has several articles on this subject. Wikipedia also helps with the terminology.

1. The Model A Times Volume 3 Issue 4, Fall 2007, Page 22. This article compared the three available sources of drums and presented data to allow you to select the drum that suits you. It should be noted that the article states that “These, Mel Gross drums appear to be as good if not better than any aftermarket drums for modern cars purchased at AutoZone, Kragens Auto Parts, Napa Auto parts or any of the many other Auto parts suppliers. Most are made by the same manufacturer in China.”

2. The Model A Times Volume 4 Issue 1, Winter 2008, page 20. This article “What is Ductile iron?” presents information of the difference between ductile iron and cast iron. In simple definition, the properties of cast iron are low melting point, good fluidity for excellent castability, excellent machinability, wear resistance, while the structure precipitate cracks, leading to cast iron's characteristic brittleness. Ductile iron inhibits the creation of cracks and provides the enhanced ductility that gives the alloy its name. Ductile iron is tougher, stronger, and lighter weight than cast iron. The properties of ductile iron make it an excellent choice for casting of crankshafts and brake drums.

3. From the web site: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cast_iron
Cast iron is a group of iron-carbon alloys with a carbon content greater than 2%. [1] Its usefulness derives from its relatively low melting temperature. The alloy constituents affect its colour when fractured: white cast iron has carbide impurities which allow cracks to pass straight through; grey cast iron has graphite flakes which deflect a passing crack and initiate countless new cracks as the material breaks; ductile cast iron has spherical graphite "nodules" which stop the crack from further progressing.

4. From the web site https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ductile_iron
Ductile_iron Ductile iron, also known as ductile cast iron, nodular cast iron, spheroidal graphite iron, spheroidal graphite cast iron[1] and SG iron, is a type of graphite-rich cast iron invented in 1943 by Keith Millis.[2] While most varieties of cast iron are brittle, ductile iron has much more impact and fatigue resistance, due to its nodular graphite inclusions.

Since ductile cast iron was not patented until 1943, obviously the cast iron brake drums made by Ford starting in 1931 were not ductile CI but grey CI. Thus the Mel Gross drums are equivalent to the original CI drums provided by Ford prior to 1943.

I encourage all to get the facts straight and you will then make the best decision.

[H. L. Chauvin]

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A. Planimeter Cast Iron Brakes:

FWIW: About (20) years ago I called the Planimeter cast iron drum manufactures who at that time said either woven or "select" bonded brake bands would work with their drums.

This gentleman felt that not knowing "who" would be providing "what" types of bonded brakes, (like maybe too hard a lining for mechanical brakes), this guy recommended that Model A owners personally doing their own work would have a better chance of having good brakes if they stayed with riveted woven brakes, as opposed to having bonded brakes installed by rookies to become unglued, etc., etc,.

B. Mel Gross's Brakes:

FWIW: Ten (10) years later I spoke to Mr. Mel Gross who said that so many were complaining about squealing riveted woven Model A brakes, that he did a lot of testing and found that "his" selected brand of brake bands were best all around, lasting far longer with "no" squealing and not becoming unglued.

When I told Mr. Mell about just acquiring my Town Sedan, he told me all about it in great detail ...... this guy knew more about the mechanical functioning of Model A's than anyone could imagine ..... not just a brake man.

I did all four (4) wheels with Mr. Mel's cast iron drums and shoes .... no problems.

C. "Experience" is one of the greatest teacher.

Just me, but, if one ever wants to know what Italian girls are like, at the very least, ask an Italian guy who is married to one for 40 years or so, and lives in Italy ...... do not try to find out by reading a book quickly written by an arm chair East Coast guy who is married 40 years to a girl from Iceland, and lived in Tahiti for 40 years .... sure, he has an opinion, but no hands on experience with Italian women. LOL

With "my" experience, next brake job for me will be with Mr. Randy Gross.

[C26Pinelake]

Originally Posted by TerryH

I believe the person who caused the damage has been banned from the site, but the damage has already been done. Hopefully Randy will consider coming back, however few, if any, of those many others who have left have returned. The collective knowledge lost is staggering.....

The word staggering is very accurate! Wayne.

[31 Model A]

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

C. "Experience" is one of the greatest teacher.

Just me, but, if one ever wants to know what Italian girls are like, at the very least, ask an Italian guy who is married to one for 40 years or so, and lives in Italy ...... do not try to find out by reading a book quickly written by an arm chair East Coast guy who is married 40 years to a girl from Iceland, and lived in Tahiti for 40 years .... sure, he has an opinion, but no hands on experience with Italian women. LOL

WHOA Hoss!!!!!!!!!! One does not have to be Italian to know all about Italian gals, nor German, nor Czech, nor Irish, nor a scot, Welshman, nor Thai or PI, a Frenchman, Dutchman to know all about the above lady nationalities............brakes are a different story, I don't know shit about brakes but...I know Larry for brakes!!!!!!

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hmmmm .... "Bullshit and Brilliance Comes with AGE and EXPERIENCE"

Most educational observation ..... many would agree.

[160B]

FYI

High quality cast iron US 2324322 A

Publication number US2324322 A
Publication type Grant
Publication date Jul 13, 1943
Filing date Jun 17, 1940
Priority date May 30, 1940
Inventors Flinn Jr Richard Aloysius, James Reese Donald
Original Assignee Int Nickel Co
Export Citation BiBTeX, EndNote, RefMan
Referenced by (14), Classifications (6)

The present invention relates to a method of producing high quality, moderately alloyed cast iron, and more particularly, to a method of producing high quality, moderately alloyed, nickelmolybdenum cast iron possessing markedly improved strength properties and other properties in large section sizes as well as in small section sizes; and to products made therefrom.

https://www.google.com/patents/US232...eiAd0Q6AEIGjAA

[Synchro909]

Well, after lots of chasing around, I have finally been able to ring Randy at his workplace. He was very helpful and certainly knows what he is talking about. If I lived in his part of the world or for that matter anywhere in the US, I wouldn't hesitate to have my brakes done by him. Freight makes it too expensive from here.
I now have a plan of action for my friend based on solid information.
Thanks to Randy and Mitch.
If Randy stays off this site, we will all be missing out on the benefit of his years of experience.

[C26Pinelake]

Originally Posted by 31 Model A

WHOA Hoss!!!!!!!!!! One does not have to be Italian to know all about Italian gals, nor German, nor Czech, nor Irish, nor a scot, Welshman, nor Thai or PI, a Frenchman, Dutchman to know all about the above lady nationalities............brakes are a different story, I don't know shit about brakes but...I know Larry for brakes!!!!!!

The last I heard you say was " I am outa here " ! What happened? Wayne

[quickchange]

Synchro909, Correct & i just ordered a few sets again for our shop here , prices are good too just exchange rate sucks, Hears hoping Randy & others come back we need their advice,