The Ford Barn

jdp8402 · 02-19-2016, 10:48 PM

My local mechanic told me that I should run a motor oil with zinc in it. Is this true? He said that it has something to do with the old bearings. If I should be running oil with zinc can anyone recommend an oil ( brand and weight ) with zinc already in it? I know I can buy a bottle of zinc additive.

Thanks,
Jeff Perry

Mitch//pa · 02-19-2016, 10:51 PM

I use rotella 15w40 and Mobil-1 15w50....both have enough zinc for the A engine

harleynut · 02-19-2016, 10:57 PM

I agree with Mitch......I run Rotella, I learned that from previous posts.

redmodelt · 02-19-2016, 10:57 PM

Just google "fordbarn; zinc"

Coneross-A · 02-19-2016, 11:03 PM

Jeff,

Model A engines need zinc as an anti-wear agent. There are threads that go into the technical details, so I won't go into it here. You can buy the additives separately, or there are oils that have the additives already mixed in. I have been using Brad Penn (Penn Grade1) It has the Zinc and phosphorous additives already mixed in. Others will have their own preference, but I am very happy with the performance of this oil. I buy it through Amazon.

31 Vicky · 02-19-2016, 11:40 PM

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As has been said before, the Model A doesn't need zinc or actually phosphorus.
Original oil didn't contain phosphorus, the cam didn't require it then or now.

A's Always
Dave

Phil Brown · 02-19-2016, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coneross-A

Jeff,

Model A engines need zinc as an anti-wear agent. There are threads that go into the technical details, so I won't go into it here. You can buy the additives separately, or there are oils that have the additives already mixed in. I have been using Brad Penn (Penn Grade1) It has the Zinc and phosphorous additives already mixed in. Others will have their own preference, but I am very happy with the performance of this oil. I buy it through Amazon.

Really good oil, also easy to get through jegs.com or summitracing.com

40 Deluxe · 02-20-2016, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 31 Vicky

As has been said before, the Model A doesn't need zinc or actually phosphorus.
Original oil didn't contain phosphorus, the cam didn't require it then or now.

A's Always
Dave

You are 100% right, Dave! This zinc myth just won't die! Any modern oil will work just fine; they all have more than enough additives for an A, including zinc. Maybe if you have high pressure valve springs to turn 6,000+ RPM or more, you may need the zinc. Otherwise, let this myth die a deserved death!

Tom Wesenberg · 02-20-2016, 12:45 AM

Cams have a thin line of contact with the tappet, and in addition the contact is a wiping action as the cam lobe scrapes across on the flat tappet surface. The Model A has relatively light valve springs compared to modern engines, but I still feel any added protection can only benefit the engine and retard wear. I like oil with zinc and also use Rotella 15-40.

Modern cams use rollers against the lobes, so the zinc isn't needed, and the catalytic convertor also can't tolerate the zinc.

SeaSlugs · 02-20-2016, 01:37 AM

just use whatever oil you please and put stp oil treatment in, its #1 ingredient is ZDDP aka zinc.

jdp8402 · 02-20-2016, 04:47 AM

Thank you all for the replies. I'm not trying to get any arguments started, I was just wanting to know if this is something I need or not. I think I agree with Tom Wesenberg. It may not need the zinc but if it does help even a little bit then why not. If there is a $20 per quart price difference then I probably won't be using it.

Thanks,
Jeff

BILL WILLIAMSON · 02-20-2016, 06:01 AM

Is the "ZINC" really a smooth "metal" like substance, that reduces friction???
Bill W.

noboD · 02-20-2016, 08:30 AM

Read Lake Speed's son's article about oil. He is an oil specialist engineer for Joe Gibbs racing. Detergent oil actually removes the zinc layer, which has already correctly been said really in not needed in old cars.

mshmodela · 02-20-2016, 08:59 AM

Here's a one link that's interesting reading about zinc in motor oil:

http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2...older-engines/

Mitch//pa · 02-20-2016, 09:07 AM

A JOKE ...

Pinesdune · 02-20-2016, 09:10 AM

Most Diesel motor oils (like Rotela T) have higher levels of zinc and are quite reasonable, I just use Co-Op DMO 15-40 in all my old engines and it runs about $4 per litre (Canadian $) If you look around places like Tractor Supply and big truck shops usually have DMO on sale a few times a year.

Looking for the front bumper emblem that has "Ford, Made In Canada"

Merc Cruzer · 02-20-2016, 09:27 AM

This what I use.

Royce P · 02-20-2016, 09:40 AM

ZDDP really does nothing for you in a Model A Ford engine. ZDDP was developed to combat scuffing wear experienced in ultra high performance engines that became available in the 1955 model year. The scuffing was destroying camshaft lobes and lifters when valve spring pressure exceeded 300 pounds open pressure.

Forces in a Model A Ford engine do not approach these numbers, so it is a non - issue. It's sort of like using Perrier in your radiator - it will cost more, but won't affect anything. Any modern oil of appropriate viscosity for the ambient air temperature will work fine. Just change the oil frequently to keep it clean.

If you have a muscle car with lots of valve spring pressure and a flat tappet cam, by all means use an oil with good ZDDP content.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdp8402

My local mechanic told me that I should run a motor oil with zinc in it. Is this true? He said that it has something to do with the old bearings. If I should be running oil with zinc can anyone recommend an oil ( brand and weight ) with zinc already in it? I know I can buy a bottle of zinc additive.

Thanks,
Jeff Perry

mshmodela · 02-20-2016, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

A JOKE ...

Looks like the New River in WV...

40 Deluxe · 02-20-2016, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royce P

ZDDP really does nothing for you in a Model A Ford engine. ZDDP was developed to combat scuffing wear experienced in ultra high performance engines that became available in the 1955 model year. The scuffing was destroying camshaft lobes and lifters when valve spring pressure exceeded 300 pounds open pressure.

Forces in a Model A Ford engine do not approach these numbers, so it is a non - issue. It's sort of like using Perrier in your radiator - it will cost more, but won't affect anything. Any modern oil of appropriate viscosity for the ambient air temperature will work fine. Just change the oil frequently to keep it clean.

If you have a muscle car with lots of valve spring pressure and a flat tappet cam, by all means use an oil with good ZDDP content.

Royce has it right!

John Duden · 02-20-2016, 10:49 AM

being somone that has worked on MANY antique tractors and has farmed with them, i can tell you now that any oil is better then no oil! any oil (of the proper viscosity) is better than they had when they were new, until the last few years zinc in the oil was not really much of a debate with them, we have just used standard napa oil, and they preform and wear perfectly fine.
But i Just last week got done overhauling a G john deere, i had a chunk of change stuck in it so i took all measures to protect the new engine, I used AMSOIL 30 weight break in oil with added zinc,
In the long run, it may be just a "feel good" addition, but if it helps the engine in any way it is a plus, Oil is cheap engines are not
john

Bob Bidonde · 02-20-2016, 11:01 AM

Since 1956 when I started to play with engines, I have never seen a properly maintained engine fail attributed to the performance of motor oil, and that includes modern motor oils with reduced / no zinc additive.

In my opinion, modern motor oils contain all that is necessary for antique engines to perform well, and much better than their designers imagined.

Mike V. Florida · 02-22-2016, 01:08 AM

The added zinc will not hurt the engine. If you feel better using it do so. While that may sound a little harsh, when we drive our cars we should only be concerned with driving it and not have some nagging thought that "am I hurting" the engine. This is my opinion on all additives that can be used in the A. A whole lot of people use them and a whole lot don't. If you feel better using it go right ahead a do so.

Terry, NJ · 02-22-2016, 08:26 AM

Flat Stanley?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

A JOKE ...

Terry, NJ · 02-22-2016, 08:48 AM

Bravissimo! Many Mod A owners get too wound up on the false idea that their car has a Meyer-Drake, Offy engine or a finely tuned antique European sports car engine that must be babied and worshiped on off days. Taint so! The mod A engine is a rather primitive, simplistic workhorse of a machine. It worked well for what it was. It was well made, but I could have given Henry Ford a few pointers about engine longevity. Didn't I read somewhere the Mod A was only expected to last ten years? Consider this, The mod A was produced as we went into the depression. The average person just didn't have any cash for an oil change. Then the war came along and you couldn't get oil. Yet these maintainanced starved vehicles soldiered on. Also, The best oils of the 1930s weren't as good as the worst oils of today!
Terry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde

Since 1956 when I started to play with engines, I have never seen a properly maintained engine fail attributed to the performance of motor oil, and that includes modern motor oils with reduced / no zinc additive.

In my opinion, modern motor oils contain all that is necessary for antique engines to perform well, and much better than their designers imagined.

duke36 · 02-22-2016, 11:47 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Some years back the Porsche Club did extensive research and motor teardown on the effects of reduced zinc levels in oils on horizontally , flat opposed engines. Supposedly the zinc levels were reduced due to the adverse effects on catalytic converters. All the technical details I can't remember and probably wouldn't understand, but there was discussion about boosting zinc to reduce the scuffing as discussed in prior posts. STP used to supply a red bottle with purported elevated zinc levels but it is no longer available on store shelves in our area.

02-19-2016, 10:51 PM	#2
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Zinc in motor oil? I use rotella 15w40 and Mobil-1 15w50....both have enough zinc for the A engine Last edited by Mitch//pa; 02-19-2016 at 10:59 PM.

02-19-2016, 10:57 PM	#3
harleynut Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Pittsburgh Pa Posts: 279	Re: Zinc in motor oil? I agree with Mitch......I run Rotella, I learned that from previous posts.

02-19-2016, 10:57 PM	#4
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,340	Re: Zinc in motor oil? Just google "fordbarn; zinc"

02-19-2016, 11:40 PM	#6
31 Vicky Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 106	Re: Zinc in motor oil? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) As has been said before, the Model A doesn't need zinc or actually phosphorus. Original oil didn't contain phosphorus, the cam didn't require it then or now. A's Always Dave

02-20-2016, 12:45 AM	#9
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Zinc in motor oil? Cams have a thin line of contact with the tappet, and in addition the contact is a wiping action as the cam lobe scrapes across on the flat tappet surface. The Model A has relatively light valve springs compared to modern engines, but I still feel any added protection can only benefit the engine and retard wear. I like oil with zinc and also use Rotella 15-40. Modern cams use rollers against the lobes, so the zinc isn't needed, and the catalytic convertor also can't tolerate the zinc.

02-19-2016, 10:48 PM	#1
jdp8402 Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Nebraska Posts: 79	Zinc in motor oil? My local mechanic told me that I should run a motor oil with zinc in it. Is this true? He said that it has something to do with the old bearings. If I should be running oil with zinc can anyone recommend an oil ( brand and weight ) with zinc already in it? I know I can buy a bottle of zinc additive. Thanks, Jeff Perry

02-20-2016, 01:37 AM	#10
SeaSlugs Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Central, IL Posts: 3,968	Re: Zinc in motor oil? just use whatever oil you please and put stp oil treatment in, its #1 ingredient is ZDDP aka zinc. __________________ 1929 Model AA - Need long splash aprons!

02-20-2016, 04:47 AM	#11
jdp8402 Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Nebraska Posts: 79	Re: Zinc in motor oil? Thank you all for the replies. I'm not trying to get any arguments started, I was just wanting to know if this is something I need or not. I think I agree with Tom Wesenberg. It may not need the zinc but if it does help even a little bit then why not. If there is a $20 per quart price difference then I probably won't be using it. Thanks, Jeff

02-20-2016, 06:01 AM	#12
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Zinc in motor oil? Is the "ZINC" really a smooth "metal" like substance, that reduces friction??? Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

02-20-2016, 08:30 AM	#13
noboD Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 319	Re: Zinc in motor oil? Read Lake Speed's son's article about oil. He is an oil specialist engineer for Joe Gibbs racing. Detergent oil actually removes the zinc layer, which has already correctly been said really in not needed in old cars.

02-20-2016, 08:59 AM	#14
mshmodela Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 2,763	Re: Zinc in motor oil? Here's a one link that's interesting reading about zinc in motor oil: http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2...older-engines/ __________________ -Mike Late 31' Ford Model A Tudor, Miss Daisy I don't work on cars --I'm learning about my Model A. Cleveland, Ohio

02-20-2016, 09:10 AM	#16
Pinesdune Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Canada Posts: 414	Re: Zinc in motor oil? Most Diesel motor oils (like Rotela T) have higher levels of zinc and are quite reasonable, I just use Co-Op DMO 15-40 in all my old engines and it runs about $4 per litre (Canadian $) If you look around places like Tractor Supply and big truck shops usually have DMO on sale a few times a year. Looking for the front bumper emblem that has "Ford, Made In Canada"

02-20-2016, 10:49 AM	#21
John Duden Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,854	Re: Zinc in motor oil? being somone that has worked on MANY antique tractors and has farmed with them, i can tell you now that any oil is better then no oil! any oil (of the proper viscosity) is better than they had when they were new, until the last few years zinc in the oil was not really much of a debate with them, we have just used standard napa oil, and they preform and wear perfectly fine. But i Just last week got done overhauling a G john deere, i had a chunk of change stuck in it so i took all measures to protect the new engine, I used AMSOIL 30 weight break in oil with added zinc, In the long run, it may be just a "feel good" addition, but if it helps the engine in any way it is a plus, Oil is cheap engines are not john

02-20-2016, 11:01 AM	#22
Bob Bidonde Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 3,463	Re: Zinc in motor oil? Since 1956 when I started to play with engines, I have never seen a properly maintained engine fail attributed to the performance of motor oil, and that includes modern motor oils with reduced / no zinc additive. In my opinion, modern motor oils contain all that is necessary for antique engines to perform well, and much better than their designers imagined. __________________ Bob Bidonde

02-22-2016, 01:08 AM	#23
Mike V. Florida Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 14,054	Re: Zinc in motor oil? The added zinc will not hurt the engine. If you feel better using it do so. While that may sound a little harsh, when we drive our cars we should only be concerned with driving it and not have some nagging thought that "am I hurting" the engine. This is my opinion on all additives that can be used in the A. A whole lot of people use them and a whole lot don't. If you feel better using it go right ahead a do so. __________________ What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II

02-22-2016, 11:47 AM	#26
duke36 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,414	Re: Zinc in motor oil? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Some years back the Porsche Club did extensive research and motor teardown on the effects of reduced zinc levels in oils on horizontally , flat opposed engines. Supposedly the zinc levels were reduced due to the adverse effects on catalytic converters. All the technical details I can't remember and probably wouldn't understand, but there was discussion about boosting zinc to reduce the scuffing as discussed in prior posts. STP used to supply a red bottle with purported elevated zinc levels but it is no longer available on store shelves in our area.