Wow is me !!!

[nosbod]

I am rapidly approaching the end of my tether and in order to save my marriage, stop the dog being kicked too often etc. I am throwing myself on the mercy of The Ford Barners whose combined wisdom surely will help.
I recently installed one of Rich Falluca's engines and everything went very well.
She starts like a dream and runs smoothly without any problems. However if I stop she refuses to fire up again until cool. A quick check shows a spark at the points and at the coil and when she does eventually start she coughs and back fires until on the move and air cools her down once more. The carb has been checked out and there seems to be no problem with the fuel supply so I have been suspecting electrical gremlins and have done the usual elimination of condenser etc.
Am I missing something very obvious ? Please, please help me !!

[Barry B./ Ma.]

Check the polarity of your coil connection at the distributor. The suppliers have a neat gadget you plug in to the center contact that indicates proper or improper connection. I had several Model A's with the polarity reversed and the hard starting would show up after they warmed up.

[mleder]

I think you should clarify won't start. Does it turn over or not? After this I think you will get more help.

[nosbod]

Yes she turns over but just does not fire up. I have the modern points set up with the condenser with the points.The car is an Argentinian import with some non standard looking wiring .

[nosbod]

Originally Posted by Barry B./ Ma.

Check the polarity of your coil connection at the distributor. The suppliers have a neat gadget you plug in to the center contact that indicates proper or improper connection. I had several Model A's with the polarity reversed and the hard starting would show up after they warmed up.

Yes I have checked out the polarity with that gadget and it indicates that all is correct.

[Gold Digger]

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I had a similar problem about 40 years ago. The carburetor would be so hot that when I loosen the gas line steam was all that would come out. Findlay discovered an Autolite manifold heater I had recently installed was damaging my condensers. I moved the condenser up on the firewall and the problem disappeared and still runs fine. Never have understood why the carb would get so hot and when I changed the condenser it fixed the problem and the heater is still on the engine.

[MikeK]

Not enough intake valve lash. The stems are cooled by air while running. Stop, and they heat and lengthen. When you do get it restarted it coughs 'till the stems air cool again and shrink. Check your valve adjustment. Just one valve will do it.

[Purdy Swoft]

My guess is the condenser. I never had anything but problems with the modern points set up. The condensers for that setup are foreign and sometimes fail, right out of the box. I would go back to the original setup and use the short proof condenser, you will likely have problems until you do.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Do you have to use that crap gas with 10% or more ethanol in the UK?

Sure sounds like the trouble I had when I used the crap gas we have in the U.S.

[nosbod]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Do you have to use that crap gas with 10% or more ethanol in the UK?

Sure sounds like the trouble I had when I used the crap gas we have in the U.S.

No Tom, we are lucky in that respect but it will probably appear shortly.

[Tiny]

I had a 65 mustang that would do this sometimes. On that car the points would close up spmetes when they got hot. I know that really doesn't make sense but that what would happen. Since you are running the same points you might just try a new set. It solved the problem for that car

[ctlikon0712]

I vote for the condenser also, and I wouldn’t have ever thought about the valve lash issue but that makes sense...
I'm a little baffled by the thread title. Did you mean "Woe" or Wow that is some Queens English, us across the ponders aren’t familiar with?

[cushman man]

Two things very easy to check.Change the condenser some of the new ones can be bad.Next the coil.They will crank and run good cold but when it gets up to temperture they get hot.after setting for awhile and they cool down it will run fine.In my model A I always carry spare coil carb and distributor under the seat.

[Duffy1]

Have you checked the gas cap,is it venting ?

[Ross/Kzoo]

Are you sure that you didn't mean to say"Woe is me"?

[WTSHNN]

Whatever you do, do it one thing at a time and test after each step. Change the condenser and then start it up, run it and see if the problem is still there. If you do everything everyone here said at the same time you'll probably solve the problem but you'll never be able to pinpoint what exactly it was.

-Tim

[nosbod]

Originally Posted by ctlikon0712

I vote for the condenser also, and I wouldn’t have ever thought about the valve lash issue but that makes sense...
I'm a little baffled by the thread title. Did you mean "Woe" or Wow that is some Queens English, us across the ponders aren’t familiar with?

Difficult for us Brits to take but I stand corrected by your better use of our language than me !

[nosbod]

Yes the gas cap is vented and I agree about changing more than one thing at a time. The thought on the valve adjustment make a a lot of sense to me and will check it out this week.
Many thanks for all the feedback .
John

[BobbyG]

Nosbod - Have you checked to see if you have a spark when it is trying to start but not catching ?
Sounds electrical to me.

Bob - Essex area !

[nosbod]

Yes Bob there is a spark at the points and at the coil. Seems to be electrical to me also but I have yet to find out where !

[700rpm]

I have the modern points set up with the condenser with the points.The car is an Argentinian import with some non standard looking wiring .

I suggest that is the crux of your problem right there. Put the distributor plates back to original and rewire your primary ignition circuit so it is also original. (One thing at a time, of course.)

[Dick M]

If you have spark at the points and you have a good spark from the coil wire to a head stud when trying to start when hot, I would look elsewhere. I certainly think that checking the valve settings makes good sense. Incorrect valve settings can impede the gas flow to the cylinders. It's has to be either an air, fuel, or spark problem. Let us know what you find.

[rons49]

it must be something that changes when fully warmed . One is valve lash, time consuming to check. Do you have voltage to the plugs? , not just coil and points. Does the engine crank more slowly when warmed. Cylinders/ pistons could be tight reducing the cranking speed and reducing voltage to fire off. What size battery cables are you using? recommend real ought or 00. Many vendors are selling #2 as #1. On a standard compression engine that should be ok, but when a new engine gets hot #2 may be inadequate.

[BobbyG]

Next check has to be is there a spark at the plug.

[Purdy Swoft]

I don't know the guy but I don't think that a professional engine builder would set the valve lash wrong. I'm betting that it has something to do with the modern points and condenser setup or a weak coil.

[nosbod]

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Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

I don't know the guy but I don't think that a professional engine builder would set the valve lash wrong. I'm betting that it has something to do with the modern points and condenser setup or a weak coil.

Yes the guy has a good name here on The Barn but just to be sure I checked the valve lash today and everything was spot on. It seems that by general consensus the modern points and condenser could be the culprit so that has to be the next route to explore.

[BobbyG]

If it is a modern coil - make sure it is wired correctly & as close to dizzy as possible - nice short coil lead is better than a big long un.

[Rock Hornbuckle]

Have you checked the coil with an ohm meter? when coils start to go bad, they will get hot, when they get hot the ohm readings go up. So when the coil is at normal temperature it is fine, when it is hot it will still produce spark, but the spark is not hot enough for the engine to run.

[bogiediver]

Same exact symptoms... mine was self inflicted...

I had replaced the 30 amp glass fuse in the fuse holder on the starter with a circuit breaker.

Engine heat was causing the breaker to separate. Open the hood, let it get some breeze for 5-10 minutes, she'd fire back up. Run a while, then quit.

Took out the circuit breaker, put back the glass fuse - runs fine...

Was quite frustrating to track down...

Your results may vary...

[nosbod]

Very interesting..... the poor quality condensers not working properly even out of the box led me to replacing it. However before doing so I consulted an electrical guru who specializes in vintage cars. He agreed about poor quality condensers but added that a faulty condenser can cause problems for the coil and a faulty coil cause problems for the condenser so these two should always be treated as one component and replaced together to avoid storing up problems for the future. This I did and guess what...... hot starting problem has disappeared !! He also added that Bosch 6 volt coils are of a lot better quality and that a tuning firm in the Uk ( Swift Tune )fed up with poor condensers has commissioned his own which are of high quality but live outside the distributor and are more expensive. Food for thought.
Many thanks for all the help and advice
John.

[BobbyG]

glad you are all sorted - quick get it out there before summer comes n goes!!............Ooops too late

[ctlikon0712]

NOSBOD, glad your up and running relialbly!