Happy hour ////sad hour

[allen]

Happy hour is when you spend day and days freeing the motor and taking it apart, and looking it over with a fine tooth comb for cracks and finding none this is a happy hour indeed, Just for it to turn sour when your machine shop cracks the block installing hardened valve seats, They cracked it between number 3 and for intake, sad hour indeed , Now i would like your opinion throw it away or try and fix the crack, it is not crack in the water jacket but right in the small part of the block between the two intake valves, My worry is the seat lifting up any thought thanks guys

[Jim Parker Toronto]

Sounds like a screw up by the machine shop. If it is a numbers matching block, have it fixed, if not get another one, theres still lots around!

[MikeK]

I know you wanna ring somebody's neck, but do-do happens, especially on 80 year old blocks with plenty of accumulated stress, corrosion, and design faults. Fortunately that spot is fairly thick (deep) before you hit water or strike oil. I vote to pull the seats, metal stitch through and across the counterbores made for the seats, recut the counterbores and call it a day.

Of course, how much work has already been done, if you want to junk it, and how much you are in love with that particular block all factor in. I've seen block number pads machined clean and restamped, but of course I have never done that!

[Bruce in southern OH]

I just came from garage, opened up this first, took a motor apart all day, finally got engine ready to load in pickup to have block checked, thought I would scrape more dirt off behind where the fill tube was, after all day of taking motor apart, I found a crack I think in the top water jacket area ( side top ) of motor running horizonial behind where the fill tube was, can this be fixed, not in cylinder area, right where it turns up. Sad day now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CWPASADENA]

Originally Posted by Bruce in southern OH

I just came from garage, opened up this first, took a motor apart all day, finally got engine ready to load in pickup to have block checked, thought I would scrape more dirt off behind where the fill tube was, after all day of taking motor apart, I found a crack I think in the top water jacket area ( side top ) of motor running horizonial behind where the fill tube was, can this be fixed, not in cylinder area, right where it turns up. Sad day now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This may be an old freeze crack. The engine in the first Model A I restored had a crack in the same place. The machine shop pinned the crack and it ran fine with no problems for the many years that I had it. That was over 50 years ago and for all I know, it still may be running.

Chris

[allen]

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thanks guys, would you stich with allen head screws, drill and tap the line or the tapper drive pins thanks al

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by Bruce in southern OH

I just came from garage, opened up this first, took a motor apart all day, finally got engine ready to load in pickup to have block checked, thought I would scrape more dirt off behind where the fill tube was, after all day of taking motor apart, I found a crack I think in the top water jacket area ( side top ) of motor running horizonial behind where the fill tube was, can this be fixed, not in cylinder area, right where it turns up. Sad day now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why has this thread been hijacked? This thread is about Allen asking for opinions about a specific crack he has, not if someone else's different crack is repairable. Maybe I missed something. Perhaps the title, rather than the lead post content of a new thread is the all-important issue?

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by allen

thanks guys, would you stich with allen head screws, drill and tap the line or the tapper drive pins thanks al

Allen,
I would use only C series special thread pins that draw the crack together to start. I suggest you go to a diesel shop or a builder who is experienced with stitching in the valve seat area. I'm no expert. Just my two cents. Here's a page to look at: http://www.locknstitch.com/AboutCSeries.htm

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by MikeK

Why has this thread been hijacked?

I disagree, it's about block cracks and posters have placed in one area the different types and some different solutions.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by MikeK

Allen,
I would use only C series special thread pins that draw the crack together to start. I suggest you go to a diesel shop or a builder who is experienced with stitching in the valve seat area. I'm no expert. Just my two cents. Here's a page to look at: http://www.locknstitch.com/AboutCSeries.htm

I agree with Mike as to what's the best solution. Also for future reference, was the valve seat recessed? That's the only reason I'd install valve seats. The Model A will run fine with the original seats.

[pat in Santa Cruz]

I agree with Mike K and Tom W.... Lock n Stitch pins are superior to the old methods. In a high stress area where the crack is, they're a far better bet than standard pins.

[ursus]

I had that happen as well and the machinist was able to place two pins that drew the crack together, with one of the pins placed in such a way as to also secure the valve seat in place. I wasn't as confident as he was, but it has worked well for 10,000 miles so far.

[Bruce in southern OH]

Not High jacked, same thing, Happy day to Sad Day, and have a good day, Bruce

[allen]

Tom now i feel real bad the seats were great not a mark, everyone told me to do this because of the gas with no lead we were talking about not doing it and just add lead additive,but the shop seems to think that putting the harden seats it was no problem, hind sight 20/20

[Tom Wesenberg]

You also don't need lead additive. Just drive and enjoy. About the only things that needed hard seats were tractors pulling a 12 bottom plow. They work hard and when lead was removed they could benefit from a special hard seat installation.

Model A's have low compression, fairly weak valve springs, and work an easy life. They don't need special hard seats, nor additives.

[Tom from Drippin']

Originally Posted by allen

because of the gas with no lead we were talking about not doing it and just add lead additive,but the shop seems to think that putting the harden seats it was no problem,

Gas in the '30s did not contain lead!

[Special Coupe Frank]

Originally Posted by Tom from Drippin'

Gas in the '30s did not contain lead!

"Ethyl" Gasoline did...


Leaded gasoline was created around 1924, by Charles Kettering ( who also gave us breaker-point ignition and the self-starter ). Kettering was searching for an anti-knock compound to add to gasoline. After much trial and error, they found that Tetra-ethyl Lead practically eliminated knock, and also tended to lubricate the upper cylinder area, valve guides, etc.

Historically speaking, AMOCO ( Standard Oil ) has always had an unleaded gasoline product available.

[1931 flamingo]

I can remember having to go "find" white gas for my father, many, many years ago. I forget which brand of gas it was, no-lead
Paul in CT

[Rusty Homestead Fl]

Paul. that was probably American Oil Co. White gas . It was their high test. We used to use it in our Coleman lanterns.

[allen]

Being not quite 50 i remember regular and unleaded and premium, I was always under the thought that leaded gas built a carbon film over the valves and seats which help in the knock but also caused the build up of carbon on top of the pistons which then set you car to diesel, I can still remember my dad pouring water down the carb of a very warm up car to break up the carbon, I can remember leaded gas when i was kid but when tom said they did not make it in the 30s, I could not disagree or agree wasn't their then, like i said hind sight 20/20 or maybe i should have asked before doing this, anyway ordered the pins today there is a great video on this on you tube thanks guys for everything once again