Rear axle housing repair : my feeback

[tof33]

Hello
Recently I bought a Ford 35 and during a rear brake inspection I showed the wheel bearing surface of the axle housings was scored on the under side between 0.02 to 0.11".
Usually you have to buy a new inner race and grind the shaft housing : quite hard, expensive and who can do that ??

So I think to an other method. Only 100 miles since but all is OK

I put a big IKO bearing on the hub (no grinding needed): ref: TR628138-IKO
I insert the bearing inner ring (LRT556238.5-IKO) with an other custom made inner ring and a lot of Loctite 638.

See pictures...

Regards

[Admiral]

Keep us posted on how long it lasts! I'm sure back in the day people did much more questionable repairs to keep their cars on the road. If this holds up, it beats the hell out of disassembling the entire rear end, machining the ends of the bells and fitting new bearing races.

[flatheadfan]

This is interesting...... need some details. What is involved in making a "custom made inner ring?"

Thanks

Tom

[tof33]

The custom made inner ring is very simple:

in diameter : depends your housing surface, but usually the original bearing surface
out diameter : the inner diameter of the IKO bearing : 55mm
length : the original bearing surface housing length

Precision:
- you need 2 IKO inner bearing : one for the bearing and a half for the seal.
- and another part to turn whick hold the seal (62X72X9 metric size : I'm a frenchy :-) )

About the cost : 120 Eur for bearing, ring and seal, 100Eur for truning custom ring and seal support + Loctite.
So a repair for 250 Eur.


I haven't take other picture because of time lack : I have to use the car for a meeting.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Welcome to the Fordbarn. I have often thought there must be some alternate ways to repair those rear bearings. Another member here....Lawrie... from Australia, was also looking into trying some alternate rear wheel bearings, but not sure how that turned out. Let us know how your idea works. Also, I /we would enjoy hearing some details on your 35 Cabriolet, assuming your avatar picture is the car you just bought and doing the bearing repair on.

[tof33]

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Yes my Avatar is my 35 cabriolet. More exactly it's a page of the Kellner catalogue.
My car is a French made V8-48 with a Janer custom body (5 places under the hood). Janer was the coachwork for little series by Kellner.
I don't know any other same car. Today there's a Buick '34 with the same body for sale (http://www.prewarcar.com/classifieds/ad203678.html). Quite strange


And I'll give you rear axle "health" information ... I have many car it could take some years (2 or 3 ) to reach 1000 miles ...

[Russ/40]

Is the new bearing surface, (ring) heat treated for hardness?

[Lawrie]

John, my mod turned out great,I have not run it yet but its all done and on the wall as a spare,I may fit one side into my 33 some time as the axle end is a bit second hand..
let me know if you want some info.
tof33,if you do a search under ( rear wheel bearings ),you will come up with some pics of the mod I did.
lawrie

[tof33]

Yes the inner ring surface is hardened. It's sold with the bearing.

Christophe

[Russ/40]

Please be patient with me, I want to be sure I understand this. The custom ring's inner dimension fits the axel housing outer dimension and the custom ring's outer dimension fits the inside of the race that comes with the bearing. The bearing's outer dimension fits the inside of the hub. The seal needs a custom ring to make it fit everything. I get lost when you say you need two bearings. Your use of the word "half" gets me puzzled. Are you saying you fit two roller bearings side by side inside the hub, and two races over the custom ring on the axel housing side by side?

[Russ/40]

BTT looking for a confirmation from "tof33"

[tof33]

Yes you are right.


So from inner to outer:

1/ custom ring : 52,3 mm (axle housing) x 55 x 54mm (axle housing length)

take, check, verify your own measure, depends on you axle condition

2/ inner ring 55x62x38 + 55x62x16

"1 and a half" : you have to cut a 2nd inner brace to reach the 54mm. This second brace is needing for the seal

3/ bearing 62x81x38

only one. 38mm long vs 43mm fort the original bearing but it doesn't matter.

fitted in the hub: original hub size around 80.93mm (tight! ) but in the wear in the middle could extend to 81.2mm (on my car) and you need some fixing/sealing compound.
Note: if you heat (a little) the hub, it can be more easy.

4/ seal
you can find 62x81x8 seal but with wear I prefer do an "holder" for the seal to have perfect fittement


Hope it's clear: you can send private message if needed. (Sometimes I don't use the correct english word)

Regards
Christophe

[Mart]

This may help. 1-1/2 of these per side.
https://www.123bearing.co.uk/accesso...6238.5-IKO.php
And one of these per side.
https://www.123bearing.co.uk/bearing-TR628138-IKO.php

Then you make a sleeve that goes over the axle to fit the bearing inner(s) and put the outer in the hub. You then need a seal or an adaptor for a seal.

Thanks for the info, tof33, that's pretty interesting.

Mart.

[Russ/40]

Thank you tof33 and you too mart. The photos of the items helped immensely. I did not realize the bearing was a caged bearing, stationery to the hub.

[nathanmac]

Hi, I've just come across this post and looking for a repair for my 40 pickup rear axle. Am I right in thinking the hubs of a '35 have a larger outer diameter bearing than a 1940?

I'd be interested to know if there is an off-the-shelf bearing and sleeve that could work. Or would it be an option to use '35 hubs/drums on a 40 diff?

[JM 35 Sedan]

Bttt

tof33, any updates on this rear bearing repair?

[FlatheadTed]

JM 35 asked for a update ,this is my slant on this upgrade ,The bearing I used is NA6911 ,IKO it will work for Model A through to 1936 ,in 37 the axl race was smaller so would need a different bearing ,The inner sleeve is a snug fit on the outer but a sleeve is needed , in the drum hub it needed a shim of about 1mm ,Ted
Foot note a Sleeve is still needed .

[FlatheadTed]

bbbbbbbbbbb

[Lawrie]

Ted I didn,t like the IKO bearing as I thought the little needle rollers would be turning too fast,and I didn,t know how they would go with grease not oil.
Lawrie

[alchemy]

Hey all you 35-36 guys with a bad race: You don't need to do any machine work, just flip the housings side-for-side. The bad part of the race will now be on the top of the housing where there is no real pressure. The new bottom of the race is fresh and should last another 80 years.

[FlatheadTed]

Yeah Lawire I thought the same ,the problem is that with the limited space you have any bearing you use that supplies its own inner race restricts roller size , I liked this because the inner race is close to the axle but still need a inner ring ,I did have that feeling that it would not perform like Fords one .I used it because my hub race was pitted ,I have since removed it because I got a near new drum .after it was removed I checked it and found the outer shim sleeve had bunched up so a better idea would need to be found .I think it could work with the right lube ,but a trial run would be needed with regular monitoring Ted

Originally Posted by Lawrie

Ted I didn,t like the IKO bearing as I thought the little needle rollers would be turning too fast,and I didn,t know how they would go with grease not oil.
Lawrie

[Lawrie]

Ted, have a look at my post on using the NU1010 roller bearings,You only have to machine the axle bearing diameter down a small amount,and bore and sleave the worn hub,
I did two ends for spares for the 33 and 34,the axle assy is all done and on the wall as a spare.
Lawrie

[FlatheadTed]

Ok Lawrie thanks, does that mean removing the axle housing for machining , Ted

[Lawrie]

Yes, but its no trouble,I made a mandrel to fit into the bore of the carrier bearing recess,then a large centre in the wheel bearing end,clock it up on the brake backing plate spigot.
Lawrie

[flatheadmurre]

Lawrie did you use one or 2 bearings ?

[Lawrie]

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Two each side,I was concerned about their load carrying capacity but it was about if I remember right about 9tons per side.
Lawrie

[flatheadmurre]

Ok that takes care of the problem i had in mind...if the bearing isn´t long enough the axle will see some stress from drum being at an angle.

[FlatheadTed]

Lawrie its sound like a real good solution ,If you compare a front tapper roller specially the outer one it would be similar to the IKO ,in size if it worked it would save a lot of extra work .Ted

[Lawrie]

Ted ,some where I have the drawings of the bits I made and the bearing and seal part numbers
I,m sure I had sent them to some one on the barn
Lawrie

[Lawrie]

Ted my post was on the 4/3/17
Lawrie

[meric42]

Here is a link to the thread that I commented on a few years ago, with instructions on how I did this mod. The bearings are much cheaper than the roller ones mentioned earlier in this post. Scroll down until you see my pictures.

[JSeery]

Here is what meric42 posted 11-29-2010:

"In the first pic you can see the inner spacer held in place by the factory inner hub seal cir-clip and the two ball bearings between which is another spacer @ 1/2" wide. There is a third spacer identical to the inner spacer but fitted on the out side of the outer bearing. The second pic shows the inner seal cir-clip and the inner spacer and the third pic is a close-up of the inner/outer spacer."

"The width of the spacers is not particularly critical, the complete set-up should be sized to fill the space right out to the seal retaining clip grove. The inner hub seal is no longer required as sealed bearings are used and should require no further lubrication."

"Remember the bearings used are only a loose fit into the hub so a thin sleeve is required between the outside of the bearing and the inside of the hub. I have used loctite on mine to secure the bearings and prevent movement in the hub."

He doesn't list bearing size/numbers.

[Lawrie]

If you use ball bearings,what do you do for axial movement of the axle?
Lawrie

[JM 35 Sedan]

Lawrie, I remember being very interested in your bearing conversion at the time you were posting details on this. It's possible that you sent me pictures and other details on this, but I can't remember now. I would need to go back into my computer files and take a look.

[cas3]

the way Lawrie did it sure seems like a good plan to me. retail price of those bearings is quite high, but i found some much cheaper shopping around on line. one on ebay at half price, but you need four. i like it, but i have not done it.

[FlatheadTed]

As I see it the axle side thrust is controlled by the spider gears ,Ted

Originally Posted by Lawrie

If you use ball bearings,what do you do for axial movement of the axle?
Lawrie

[Lawrie]

Ted there is a small amount of axial movement in the axle,so you have to make provision for that,I saw some ball bearings that some A guys used,they had the rubber seals melted.they must rely on the bearing inner maybe just a slip fit on the inner bearing area.
It worked but not the best.and the ball bearings load rating is a lot less than the roller bearings.
Lawrie

[flatheadmurre]

Not to easy to install a ballbearing or conical rollerbearing in this aplication either...you will have to press with load through the bearing...and will be a pain removing the drum later.
Some kind of a 2 piece drum and a set of conical bearings could make it a fullfloater axle.
I still find it easier to make sleeves and use the original style bearings...even if the supply of good ones is low.

[Lawrie]

Look at my old post on the mod I did,none of that drama,I used roller bearings with a removable inner race.
Lawrie