Bone Stock or Modified?

[Big hammer]

Originally Posted by Russ B

I have had my cabriolet since 1958-59. It was a bit modified when I got it with 16” 1935 wire wheels and BLC sealed beam headlights. It survived the depression and WWII. It was mostly complete, but worn. I made a few more changes while I was still in high school and it was my everyday car. Fifty years later I rebuilt it and made a bunch more modifications, spending a couple thousand hours of my time and many additional hours with the painter and upholstery pros. To most people it is just a nice old car with a four cylinder Model A motor. They couldn’t care less what is a modification. On a 500 mile trip by myself on mostly freeways, I realized better brakes than the 40 Ford brakes are needed, so one more modification is in the planning. It is my model A, and I am happy with it, and that is all that matters.

The debates on original versus modified all seem the same, some for and some against, with many personal qualifications on their positions. My basic position is there were many millions of Model A’s built, even tens of thousands of my fairly rare cabriolet, so no one should feel that there is only one proper way to build a Model A. Just do what you want with your car, time, and money.

Nice ! I like it, more pictures ! Please !

[rocket1]

My philosophy is K I S S but to each his or her own.

[Jack Shaft]

You bring up an interesting point between modified and stock..keep it simple...okay, Ill bite...which is simpler? an ignition system with manual spark advance or mechanical timing advance? which is simpler? hydraulic or mechanical brakes?

Another factor in simplicity is the maintenance load...though the function is technically simpler does it need more maintenance? then is it really simpler?

[Licensed to kill]

Originally Posted by Jack Shaft

You bring up an interesting point between modified and stock..keep it simple...okay, Ill bite...which is simpler? an ignition system with manual spark advance or mechanical timing advance? which is simpler? hydraulic or mechanical brakes?

Another factor in simplicity is the maintenance load...though the function is technically simpler does it need more maintenance? then is it really simpler?

It's always "simpler" to just leave it as it is rather than making modifications/changes. It is a LOT simpler to stay with mechanical brakes than to convert to hydraulic and if someone wants those mechanical upgrades, it's "simpler" to buy a newer car that came with them rather than a car that did not and has to be changed. Modifying something is never "simpler" than leaving it stock unless the stock parts are broken and are not available any more. Now, DRIVING may (or may not) be simpler if you make changes to things like the ignition and brakes on a model A but it's STILL simpler to just buy a car that already has those features. Point is that defining "simple" is not necessarily all that "simple"

[Chris Haynes]

I would love to have a 100 point restored car. They are not in my budget.
I bought a decent running car that did not have original color paint and was a combination of ingredients. Over the years I have been adding missing parts, such as the top material.
I have upgraded the steering and suspension to make it safe and easy to maintain. Since I was a teenager I wanted a RILEY head and a "B" crank. Now I have it.
If I suddenly came into a heap of cash I would be shopping for a mostly original unrestored car. After all, they can be restored a million times but they are only original once.

[Jack Shaft]

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Thats your car Chris,it doesn't need to meet any standards but yours...it meets mine as well, nice work...

[bob from red oak]

Very interesting responses. Why do we make changes? Some are content with originality and keeping it the same, That's fine for some. I think others have a basic inner need to change. Why do we repaint our homes, rearrange furniture, move benches in our shops? Usually change is prompted by the personal need for change or the need to upgrade. the need to change is a self-motivated. I need to do or be different to be fulfilled as a productive person, The need to upgrade for is often for safety or personal comfort. As we see in the responses Model A owners are not all alike we we all have a preference for no change, some change, or no limit change, I personally have my own limits to changes on my A but I appreciate what others choose to do or not do. Great discussion. thanks,

[Jack Shaft]

Originally Posted by Licensed to kill

It's always "simpler" to just leave it as it is rather than making modifications/changes. It is a LOT simpler to stay with mechanical brakes than to convert to hydraulic and if someone wants those mechanical upgrades, it's "simpler" to buy a newer car that came with them rather than a car that did not and has to be changed. Modifying something is never "simpler" than leaving it stock unless the stock parts are broken and are not available any more. Now, DRIVING may (or may not) be simpler if you make changes to things like the ignition and brakes on a model A but it's STILL simpler to just buy a car that already has those features. Point is that defining "simple" is not necessarily all that "simple"

Got to disagree, take the distributor for instance, you could change to a mechanical advance easily. This has many returns on investment, better economy, a cooler running engine, lower combustion chamber temperatures (longer head gasket and exhaust manifold gasket life) elimination of spark knock and the damage it causes. Clearly a modification with a high return.
Converting to hydraulic brakes is labor intensive and has some cost factor, but the reduced instances of maintenance alone will ultimately defray that cost, the benefits of equal application pressure on all wheels is the ultimate in braking safety. I enjoy the maintenance of mechanical brakes and have effective stopping power but there are many cars and owners out there with poor maintenance and limited owner skill ,hydraulic brakes, especially bendix style self energizing with self adjusters would be a smart upgrade for alot of folks.

[Licensed to kill]

Originally Posted by Jack Shaft

Got to disagree,

I would expect nothing less.

.... take the distributor for instance, you could change to a mechanical advance easily. This has many returns on investment, better economy, a cooler running engine, lower combustion chamber temperatures (longer head gasket and exhaust manifold gasket life) elimination of spark knock and the damage it causes. Clearly a modification with a high return.
Converting to hydraulic brakes is labor intensive and has some cost factor, but the reduced instances of maintenance alone will ultimately defray that cost, the benefits of equal application pressure on all wheels is the ultimate in braking safety. I enjoy the maintenance of mechanical brakes and have effective stopping power but there are many cars and owners out there with poor maintenance and limited owner skill ,hydraulic brakes, especially bendix style self energizing with self adjusters would be a smart upgrade for alot of folks.

I understand what you are saying and in some circumstances, would agree but not all (most?). However, be that as it may, I appreciate people sharing opposing views to my own. That is how I learn. Sometimes I learn that my point of view was flawed and i can adjust accordingly, and sometimes the opposing view does not hold water IMO and just confirms my present position. Either way, for me, opposing views have value and i appreciate them. Thanks.

[denis4x4]

Originally Posted by Licensed to kill

It's always "simpler" to just leave it as it is rather than making modifications/changes. It is a LOT simpler to stay with mechanical brakes than to convert to hydraulic and if someone wants those mechanical upgrades, it's "simpler" to buy a newer car that came with them rather than a car that did not and has to be changed. Modifying something is never "simpler" than leaving it stock unless the stock parts are broken and are not available any more. Now, DRIVING may (or may not) be simpler if you make changes to things like the ignition and brakes on a model A but it's STILL simpler to just buy a car that already has those features. Point is that defining "simple" is not necessarily all that "simple"

One of the problems with threads like this is the lack of perspective. Take brakes for instance. Yes, you can "skid" all four tires with mechanical brakes. But how many times can you do that in heavy traffic situations. A lot of posts reference specific kits for hydraulic brake conversions. I've done several with used parts and the emergency brake cross shaft. Problem solving is as much fun in making modifications as the actual modifications. Having made a fine living in the hot rod equipment industry, I can appreciate all points of view on this subject.

[Jack Shaft]

...

[Jack Shaft]

Originally Posted by Licensed to kill

I would expect nothing less.


I understand what you are saying and in some circumstances, would agree but not all (most?). However, be that as it may, I appreciate people sharing opposing views to my own. That is how I learn. Sometimes I learn that my point of view was flawed and i can adjust accordingly, and sometimes the opposing view does not hold water IMO and just confirms my present position. Either way, for me, opposing views have value and i appreciate them. Thanks.

The problem with the electronic communication is we cant read emotion, we only assume the others context through our own prism.. The model a ford in pure stock form is a reliable, efficient and well engineered machine. As automotive engineering advanced in my opinion some upgrades can actually improve the design.

[johnneilson]

Will we ever learn, History repeats itself over and over again.
I was doing some research on some old racers and found articles, same arguments as this thread back in the '90's. Brakes, Inserts, distributors etc.
True, automotive technology has progressed and the original cars do have a place in history.
What we should be concerned with is the preservation of ALL of these cars, as the electrics will eventually render them unusable or undrivable.
The other issue should be educating anyone who is remotely interested in these cars, I met a young man recently who was looking over my coupe. He had driven up in a Shay car and was asking me if mine was a kit car. After some discussion he realized why his only cost $8k. Then he took interest in leaning and he is looking for an original to start rebuilding/restoring.

Happy New Year All, may '21 be better than this last disaster.
John

[Jack Shaft]

Sooner than you think about electric vehicles.. we offer a million dollar electric machine, with all the subsidies currently offered over 900k is provided by you and I, the taxpayer if you operate on port property in CA. Its where the focus is right now, the ports are easily controlled and monitored. Pride transportation just took on 150 tesla tractors..one of the first over the road truck fleets in the nation to do so.
As to the quality and operator acceptance of the machines Im involved with they love electrics, simple, robust, quiet and smooth. From my perspective they are easy to troubleshoot, full computerized diagnostics, plug it in and it tells you what to do. Major repairs are a different story, the one I'm involved with is Italian. I tell my customers its built like a ferrari,if something major happens its not going to be quick or cheap to repair..