New Guy Seeking Advice

[BigRix]

I'm new to the world of Model A's but not to automotive repair. After 30 years as an Automotive Mechanic I have recently changer careers and now I am traveling the country as a contract trainer. This gives me some time off and my good friend has talked me into doing some work on his '29 Model A.





I'd like to run some things by you guys as I have little experience with the Model A, but I am a quick study. I've already picked up a lot just from reading this forum for the last couple of weeks.

First thing is a complete cleaning of the fuel system to get the rust out. He is ok with me pulling the tank but not with re painting. I'm seriously considering using Evapo-Rust. I've used it on many other projects on it is just amazing. I've read many posts about this subject and short of cutting the tank apart, I don't see much consensus as to the best way to clean it out.

He has already purchased all new parts for the fuel system including lines and carb. I have not laid eyes on these new parts but having restored several Mustangs I can tell you the quality of many of those repop parts is abysmal and I often chose to rebuild the original parts instead. Is this something I will run into with Model A parts as well?

He also wants me to install a new radiator that uses a 4lb cap and some type of screen set up that I would splice into the radiator hose. I'm not too crazy about this set up and could really use some advice as to whether I should try and talk him out of it. I would prefer to rod out the original radiator and flush out the engine and let him run it in a stock configuration.

Finally, his ultimate goal is to drive this thing with his wife and grand kids a couple times a month and have it be reliable.

Would y'all have any suggestions for upgrades that might make this a reality?

Should I find him some fuel with no ethanol? Electronic ignition?

Probably too many questions and I will try to narrow them down after I get the car to my house this weekend.

Thanks ahead of time for any and all help you can provide and I will post lots of pics as I start to work on her.

[tbirdtbird]

Wow.
I cannot weigh in on EvapoRust, I have no experience. Last I knew best approach was to let a radiator shop clean out a rusted tank. I do not like the tank-lining solutions you slosh around because it seems the ethanol in the fuel (a HUGE mistake) eats it every time.

The closer to stock you can leave the car the less trouble he will have, and the more reliable it will be.

New fuel lines should be OK, and the new carb, tho uneccessary, will be OK if from the right supplier meaning the jets are proper (flow tested, etc. There are many junk re-pop jets out there, wrong length, etc)

Pressurized cooling system very unecessary and will only cause problems. Have no idea what gizmo is to splice into the upper hose but it is not needed. Is this guy a mechanic? Or is he dazzled by gadgets? New rad. won't be cheap. If you know of a reputable rad shop let them go thru it.

If you can find fuel with no corn then God Bless and go for it.

Electronic ignition NOT needed. Henry's way was simple and reliable. Easiest points to adjust in the world. For timing, this throws guys who cut their teeth on 350 Chevies. Look at Marco's site for a pic is worth a thousand words.
http://www.abarnyard.com/workshop/timing.htm
read it study it it is not hard just different

You are right about re-pops. Henry made quality stuff back then. Many many parts were forged (today everything is plastic or worse). Too many ppl are tossing parts better than they are putting on.

Join the local club, you will have access to a wealth of experienced guys.
Forget all you know about a 350 chevy.

Post here as much as you like, there are some really really sharp guys here who know Model As cold. Look for answers from the guys with a zillion posts, they have the experience and give reliable info

Get a burnout proof condenser from the suppliers. The condenser lives right over the exhaust and is subject to all that heat. All the suppliers have a high quality burnout proof condenser available.

I notice Tom W already posted. Heed his advice about MMO; todays gas is so dry the valves can easily stick. MMO gives good lube to the valves which otherwise don't get much

Nice Tudor BTW

[Tom Wesenberg]

Stick with a completely stock ignition for the most reliability.

I'd use a few gallons of gas and keep dumping it back into the tank as you filter it thorugh cloth to remove the rust particles. Remove the gas valve, so it can drain faster, and rock the car side to side as it drains. When you have all the rust out that you can, then install the small filter in the valve, and reinstall it. I always try to use only the good gas without ethanol. I also use 4 ounces of Marvel Mystery Oil with each 10 gallons.

I would clean the cooling system and keep it stock, as you want to do.

[vermontboy]

Both of the first two answers hit on the most important one - 90 per cent of the problems mentioned on this site are caused by "improvements". A stock "A" is reliable as a rock.
That does not mean that improvements can't be made if you know what you are doing - but repairs are more complex on the "improvements" than on stock items.

[Duffy1]

You can find a tremendous amount of information on these subjects in the archives . Click on search at the top of the page .

[tbirdtbird]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

try Tom's tank idea, getting an A tank out is no easy feat

[BigRix]

The radiator he bought has a fake cap on top and uses a pressure cap that you access under the hood. The screen that is "T"ed into the hose is supposed to keep the big chunks from clogging up the smaller passages in the radiator.

I'm not really excited to install this thing.

I'm more than happy to keep the points. I grew up working on them and as the resident VW mechanic at my old job I still used them all the time.

Are you guys finding it hard to get radiator shops to work on these radiators? I haven't called around to see if my local guys will do it or not. Are cores available still?

[tbirdtbird]

Can any of the pros here comment on this goofy rad.? I have never heard of such a thing

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

Can any of the pros here comment on this goofy rad.? I have never heard of such a thing

I've seen them, but only for hot rods with 350 engines, etc.

Yes, it is getting hard to find a GOOD radiator shop. Everyone wants to make a quick easy buck and do the least work possible. I went to Auto Zone yesterday, and he couldn't even cross reference the NAPA 3039 fuel filter.

You could try backflushing the radiator. Maybe it won't need to be rodded.

[Fred K-OR]

"Are you guys finding it hard to get radiator shops to work on these radiators? I haven't called around to see if my local guys will do it or not. Are cores available still?"

Bert's in Denver have rebuilt radiators that work great.

You may be able to find a shop that knows something about Model A radiators but most do not. The best way to find a shop would be to check with a local Model A club member who may know of a local shop that does Model A's.

[Mitch//pa]

if you find the need to get a new radiator Bergs has a good reputation for quality and fit.
http://www.bergsradiator.com

i have cleaned fuel tanks with evaporust with good success, i am suprised more on here dont take that route.

i have also used evaporust for cooling systems with good success . i then use a flushing pipe connected to the top hose extended out past the body to flush after the evaporust treatment.

i have not seen the fake radiator setup for model A's but would suggest getting his money back and using it towards a bergs

welcome to the barn

[Bob C]

Here is a link to a pressurized radiator. http://www.thebrassworks.net/shop/Re...0e0bb7308bbc53

Bob

[w.michael]

For safety: Turn signals. Liddy Light in the rear window. Seat belts. Safety glass. I see you already have the second tail light.

W. Michael

[huddy]

As a reformed gadgeteer, I can recognize the symptoms in others. It's not a good approach to dealing with a Model A. The reason these cars are still alive & kickin' after 80 years is a 6-letter word: S I M P L E. And maybe another: R O B U S T.

The only good modern improvement I think most Barners agree on is modern detergent oil. Most anything made in modern times will be much better than what Henry had available. Run 10W-30 or -40 and change it every 1,000 miles or so. Don't bother with a filter. If it doesn't already have one, add an air cleaner, especially if it will be driven in an area prone to dust, or on gravel/dirt roads.

DON'T put in a pressurized cooling system. A Model A should stay reasonably cool with a stock system, if it's operating correctly. If it's overheating, it's doing it for a reason that needs to be resolved - and it may not be the radiator that's doing it.

Your friend should get the Les Andrews Vol I book and also check into the videos, both available from MAFCA on their website. The "Diablo As" in SoCal have made some excellent instructional DVDs on many maintenance topics, and I highly recommend them.

Good luck, and remember the principal of K.I.S.S!

[BigRix]

Here is the rad he has.

http://www.thebrassworks.net/shop/Re...c53b18eff959d1

It's like the other one posted earlier by Bob C but has a modern high efficiency core. I think it will clog up pretty fast.

Thanks for the oil suggestion. I forgot to ask that.

He also has that book, well had that book. He gave it to me and I am plowing through it.

[Mitch//pa]

on that radiator link where does it describe the fake cap and pressurized system

[BigRix]

You are correct, the link that Bob C posted must be it.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by BigRix

First thing is a complete cleaning of the fuel system to get the rust out. He is ok with me pulling the tank but not with re painting. I'm seriously considering using Evapo-Rust. I've used it on many other projects on it is just amazing. I've read many posts about this subject and short of cutting the tank apart, I don't see much consensus as to the best way to clean it out.

Of course you will need to remove all the loose rust in the system before using Evapo-rust. Without sealing the tank after cleaning the rust will return. Some just live with it by placing a filter in the fuel outlet in the tank. Some place a magnet in or under the tank to attract the larger chunks. some use a "dog leg" on the bottom of the tank.


He has already purchased all new parts for the fuel system including lines and carb. I have not laid eyes on these new parts but having restored several Mustangs I can tell you the quality of many of those repop parts is abysmal and I often chose to rebuild the original parts instead. Is this something I will run into with Model A parts as well?

Yes there is a lot of crap. The use of original parts is always the best. Why does he think he needs those parts?

He also wants me to install a new radiator that uses a 4lb cap and some type of screen set up that I would splice into the radiator hose. I'm not too crazy about this set up and could really use some advice as to whether I should try and talk him out of it. I would prefer to rod out the original radiator and flush out the engine and let him run it in a stock configuration.

You are correct about the cleaning of the engine and radiator. Stock Model A has no pressure.

Finally, his ultimate goal is to drive this thing with his wife and grand kids a couple times a month and have it be reliable.

Would y'all have any suggestions for upgrades that might make this a reality?

A PROPERLY restored model a will do everything he want to do for trips around town on "counrty" roads.

Should I find him some fuel with no ethanol? Always best with a car not driven much. Electronic ignition? Not needed!

Probably too many questions and I will try to narrow them down after I get the car to my house this weekend.

Thanks ahead of time for any and all help you can provide and I will post lots of pics as I start to work on her.

I would push him to save his money on mods, use it for gas and drive it stock for a while. If he decides after, that he wants mods Fordbarn can help. Any "upgrade" of a malfunctioning system will seem like the "upgrade" was needed. As an example, if a carb has worn jets, air leaks, rusted passages and runs like crap, if you put in a brand new 250 dollar carb you will see the difference. You can also spend a few dollars and clean the passages, use flow tested jets, fix the air leaks, and in a few hours have a whole bunch of money in your pocket.

[hardtimes]

Wow,
A whole mouthful at one time,eh !
Well, I'll take it peace meal and I'm sure that you'll get/got other pieces, besides mine.
YES on the evapo-rust idea...GOOD stuff, as you seem to already know.
YES on cleaning/rodding the radiator and flushing the block also. And, that if done properly should preclude pressureizing system..not needed.
BTW...Use the evapo- rust in the radiator/engine also and let it in there for (conscentrated) for a good long while (month). It will do much more good than just a back flushing. After evapo rust , then I use a good anti freeze.

[Dave in MN]

BigRix,
Your good friend has already purchased the pressurized radiator so the investment is already made. I suggest using it.
I used to have a problem with overheating and was constantly throwing water from the overflow. I was constantly worried about engine damage from overheating. I purchased and have run a high capacity pressurized Brassworks radiator for over 12 years (70,000 + miles) in my touring Phaeton. Since installing this radiator, I have never had an issue with overheating. With this system, I check the coolant twice a year... when I start it in the spring and once mid driving season. Rarely do I need to add coolant. The system has a 4# cap and a reclaim tank. 3 years ago I installed a 160 degree thermostat to keep the engine temp up for the late season drives just before the snow hits.
That being said, I do not think the screen is a good idea unless the engine is thoroughly flushed prior to installing it and the owner is willing to closely monitor the engine temp to avoid overheating. The screen would be okay/good until the loose scale is caught but I would not want it installed permanently in my engine. Just my opinion.
The other stuff mentioned: Keep it simple and stock.

The filter Tom describes is the one shown below. This filter fits into the top of the shut-off valve. The constant movement of the gas in the tank keeps the filter clean enough to pass the required fuel. Tom's method of cleaning the tank is sound and will get it clean enough to work well. If you do not install this filter, you may have problems with small particles of debris/rust plugging the carb jets or needle and seat.

Gas Tank Screen

This little screen presses into the gas shut-off valve where it goes into the gas tank. Prevents sucking gas off the bottom of the tank, and keeps junk out of gas lines. U.S.A.
Snyder's Part Number: A-9193 Price $4.35 / ea.

Other suggestions: Use gas without ethanol if the gas will remain in the tank for over a month. If the car is stored during the winter months, do not store it with ethanol blend. Just my opinion. (It's what I do.)
To avoid electrical problems, take all the connections apart and emery cloth the connections to promote good contact. It will result in a better starting and running engine. (It's one of the first things I do when a customer complains of intermittent electrical problems.)

Good Day!