The Ford Barn

warren va · 03-12-2011, 06:14 AM

Rebuilding my steering system and undecided about the rebuild kits.
Has anyone used the tie rod and drag link teflon kit and if so how does it compare to all metal ones? Does it really improve the steering much ?
thanks
Warren

pat in Santa Cruz · 03-12-2011, 06:31 AM

It helps reduce the drag, but the spindle balls should be smooth, preferably new. Worn ones wear the teflon down fast. I use teflon with new spindle balls and a shortened Pittman arm and the steering is easy. Of course, I make sure the spindle bearing is properly shimmed to bear the weight of the car. Improper shimming of that bearing is one of the most common causes of hard steering.

Mike · 03-12-2011, 07:02 AM

Well said

mike

Great Lakes Greg · 03-12-2011, 08:06 AM

I thought the teflon was an improvement and less effort in steering my car. I should note that it is difficult to know how much was the teflon and how much were the new balls I installed.

Pilotdave · 03-12-2011, 09:53 PM

Replaced tie rod (old one bent) and all 4 steering balls (all worn some), installed teflon kit. Steering seems tighter, not too much easier.

pat in Santa Cruz · 03-12-2011, 10:12 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilotdave

Replaced tie rod (old one bent) and all 4 steering balls (all worn some), installed teflon kit. Steering seems tighter, not too much easier.

check the spindle bearing to see if the cars weight is on the felt seal and not the bearing. See my remark above about shimming the bearings .

Pilotdave · 03-13-2011, 07:20 AM

Pat, thanks for the suggestion re: thrust bearing. I've read Andrew's book on the topic. How do you determine that the weight will be on the bearing vs. bottom of the axle? The book doesn't mention any dimensional checks (such as thickness of the bearing)? Thanks!

Keith True · 03-13-2011, 07:58 AM

Any specs on dimensions are out the window with any wear on the bearing surface of the spindle and the axle.Also,the bearing specs are different by different makers.That is why shims are used.You fit each spindle to the axle.I assemble everything,then jack up under the spindle with a block.Add or take out shims as needed.The spindle has to turn freely,and the weight has to rest on the bearing.If you can turn the bearing by hand it needs to be shimmed until you can't.At that point the weight will be riding on the bearing.If you sit and study the spindle,axle,and bearing,picking up on the spindle,it will become clear where the weight rides and you will be able to see what needs to be done.I fit the whole thing up first,with no felts to throw off the feel.

pat in Santa Cruz · 03-13-2011, 10:40 AM

Regarding set up, do what Keith said, "fit the whole thing first". It is important to install the spindle bolt lock pin before checking the bearing. When the lock pin is installed, if there are too many shims under the bearing, the pin will pull down on the bolt, clamping the bearing. So, be sure everything moves easily with the pin installed and tight and weight on the spindle, yet the bearing should turn without the weight. Ordinarily one or two shims will do it, but if the axle is very worn and/or the bearing is very thin it will need more. Also, if your axle was powder coated, get that stuff off the bearing surface.

Pilotdave · 03-13-2011, 03:57 PM

Time to get to the shop and check all this out! Thanks.

warren va · 03-13-2011, 05:14 PM

Pat ; I just installed one of the new shortened pitman arms and the ball was .20 thous. over size. Had to drive the sheet metal cover on for the rubber shield. When iI tightened the end cap I couldn't get it to line up for the cotter pin. Had to file out the slot to get in the pin. The old one went a half turn more and lined up right .Consquently the new arm is VERY tight . Also installed a new drag link bar. Old one was 42 7/8" long. New one is 44 ". The extra inch will not let me adjust to the previous setting. I hate to have to shorten the new rod an inch. Any suggestions will be appreciated.
Warren

pat in Santa Cruz · 03-13-2011, 07:00 PM

I would get a good used drag link, The oversized ball is something I have run into before, but I could still get the end plug in as far as the cotter holes. I suspect the drag link you have could be related to the poor plug fit as well.

MikeK · 03-13-2011, 07:59 PM

Warren, I just want to point out that there are now TWO types of teflon ball seats.

The original white, which some report as wearing quickly, and now, bronze impregnated teflon. Mac's has them, the claim is they will wear longer. LINK One past issue with teflon is the grease or dry debate. Some greases and lubes are not compatable with teflon, which may be related to the wear reports. Be careful.

Personally, I'd like to see a set made from bearing bronze, possibly with a 0.010" babbitt overlay. I'd also like to see replacement balls with a mirror smooth finish and a hard chrome overlay.

03-12-2011, 06:14 AM	#1
warren va Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid Shenandoah Valley Va, Posts: 268	Tie rod and drag link question ? Rebuilding my steering system and undecided about the rebuild kits. Has anyone used the tie rod and drag link teflon kit and if so how does it compare to all metal ones? Does it really improve the steering much ? thanks Warren

03-12-2011, 06:31 AM	#2
pat in Santa Cruz Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: santa cruz, calif Posts: 2,011	Re: Tie rod and drag link question ? It helps reduce the drag, but the spindle balls should be smooth, preferably new. Worn ones wear the teflon down fast. I use teflon with new spindle balls and a shortened Pittman arm and the steering is easy. Of course, I make sure the spindle bearing is properly shimmed to bear the weight of the car. Improper shimming of that bearing is one of the most common causes of hard steering.

03-12-2011, 07:02 AM	#3
Mike Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: ASTON, PA. Posts: 725	Re: Tie rod and drag link question ? Well said mike

03-12-2011, 08:06 AM	#4
Great Lakes Greg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,369	Re: Tie rod and drag link question ? I thought the teflon was an improvement and less effort in steering my car. I should note that it is difficult to know how much was the teflon and how much were the new balls I installed.

03-12-2011, 09:53 PM	#5
Pilotdave Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Grafton, MA Posts: 1,226	Re: Tie rod and drag link question ? Replaced tie rod (old one bent) and all 4 steering balls (all worn some), installed teflon kit. Steering seems tighter, not too much easier.

03-13-2011, 07:20 AM	#7
Pilotdave Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Grafton, MA Posts: 1,226	Re: Tie rod and drag link question ? Pat, thanks for the suggestion re: thrust bearing. I've read Andrew's book on the topic. How do you determine that the weight will be on the bearing vs. bottom of the axle? The book doesn't mention any dimensional checks (such as thickness of the bearing)? Thanks!

03-13-2011, 07:58 AM	#8
Keith True Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Epping N.H. Posts: 2,990	Re: Tie rod and drag link question ? Any specs on dimensions are out the window with any wear on the bearing surface of the spindle and the axle.Also,the bearing specs are different by different makers.That is why shims are used.You fit each spindle to the axle.I assemble everything,then jack up under the spindle with a block.Add or take out shims as needed.The spindle has to turn freely,and the weight has to rest on the bearing.If you can turn the bearing by hand it needs to be shimmed until you can't.At that point the weight will be riding on the bearing.If you sit and study the spindle,axle,and bearing,picking up on the spindle,it will become clear where the weight rides and you will be able to see what needs to be done.I fit the whole thing up first,with no felts to throw off the feel.

03-13-2011, 10:40 AM	#9
pat in Santa Cruz Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: santa cruz, calif Posts: 2,011	Re: Tie rod and drag link question ? Regarding set up, do what Keith said, "fit the whole thing first". It is important to install the spindle bolt lock pin before checking the bearing. When the lock pin is installed, if there are too many shims under the bearing, the pin will pull down on the bolt, clamping the bearing. So, be sure everything moves easily with the pin installed and tight and weight on the spindle, yet the bearing should turn without the weight. Ordinarily one or two shims will do it, but if the axle is very worn and/or the bearing is very thin it will need more. Also, if your axle was powder coated, get that stuff off the bearing surface.

03-13-2011, 03:57 PM	#10
Pilotdave Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Grafton, MA Posts: 1,226	Re: Tie rod and drag link question ? Time to get to the shop and check all this out! Thanks.

03-13-2011, 05:14 PM	#11
warren va Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid Shenandoah Valley Va, Posts: 268	Re: Tie rod and drag link question ? Pat ; I just installed one of the new shortened pitman arms and the ball was .20 thous. over size. Had to drive the sheet metal cover on for the rubber shield. When iI tightened the end cap I couldn't get it to line up for the cotter pin. Had to file out the slot to get in the pin. The old one went a half turn more and lined up right .Consquently the new arm is VERY tight . Also installed a new drag link bar. Old one was 42 7/8" long. New one is 44 ". The extra inch will not let me adjust to the previous setting. I hate to have to shorten the new rod an inch. Any suggestions will be appreciated. Warren

03-13-2011, 07:00 PM	#12
pat in Santa Cruz Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: santa cruz, calif Posts: 2,011	Re: Tie rod and drag link question ? I would get a good used drag link, The oversized ball is something I have run into before, but I could still get the end plug in as far as the cotter holes. I suspect the drag link you have could be related to the poor plug fit as well.

03-13-2011, 07:59 PM	#13
MikeK Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Windy City Posts: 2,919	Re: Tie rod and drag link question ? Warren, I just want to point out that there are now TWO types of teflon ball seats. The original white, which some report as wearing quickly, and now, bronze impregnated teflon. Mac's has them, the claim is they will wear longer. LINK One past issue with teflon is the grease or dry debate. Some greases and lubes are not compatable with teflon, which may be related to the wear reports. Be careful. Personally, I'd like to see a set made from bearing bronze, possibly with a 0.010" babbitt overlay. I'd also like to see replacement balls with a mirror smooth finish and a hard chrome overlay.