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Old 04-16-2021, 11:18 PM   #21
Model A Ron
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Default Re: SNYDER’S 5.5 head vs 6.1

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Originally Posted by alexiskai View Post
Most folks say the difference between the two is not noticeable for normal driving. The only caveat is that the higher the compression, the more critical your timing is, so if you're a set-it-and-forget-it guy on the advance lever, the 5.5 will be more forgiving.
This is good advice. Do you have a 5.5 or a 6.1?
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Old 04-16-2021, 11:20 PM   #22
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Default Re: SNYDER’S 5.5 head vs 6.1

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Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
No. It needs to be heat cycled first so the casting with move all it is going to move.

I am not here to dispute what John is saying regarding using a stock distributor, -however the 6:1 head is very, very similar to the 5.9 head that Larry Brumfield produced for years and years. These heads were used by folks with stock Model-A distributors for years. No one ever complained about having detonation issues. IMHO, most of this stuff is 'he said/she said' where someone said you need to have a centrifugal distributer with your 6.0 head or you will blow up your engine. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I have sent a bunch of engines out the door, an every one of them use a Snyders 6:1 that we re-machine the surface (-generally about 0.005") and install. Back when Larry first introduced those heads, 98% of all engines they were installed on were cast bearings. The only bearing failures that were talked about on the forums (Ahooga and the original Fordbarn) back then were generally attributed to poor quality babbitt work. Today, using a 6:1 head does not need anything different than a 5.5 head.
This is good advice as well. Will I see a difference in the amount of attention I will need to give the spark advance between the 5.5 and the 6.1?
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Old 04-17-2021, 05:36 AM   #23
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Default Re: SNYDER’S 5.5 head vs 6.1

See the little device I made and the whole thread: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...ce#post1872892

I have only driven my Coupe with a stock head and a 6:1. In OD, on level ground at 50 mph, it sounds and feels better at less than 28 deg advance. If I come to a slope more than a gentle one, less advance is needed. You need to play with it under various conditions and listen and feel how the engine is straining or clattering and advance and retard as needed. Too much advance for a couple of revs won’t hurt the motor, ditto for too retarded. After a while, it becomes habitual.
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Old 04-17-2021, 09:24 AM   #24
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Default Re: SNYDER’S 5.5 head vs 6.1

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See the little device I made and the whole thread: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...ce#post1872892

I have only driven my Coupe with a stock head and a 6:1. In OD, on level ground at 50 mph, it sounds and feels better at less than 28 deg advance. If I come to a slope more than a gentle one, less advance is needed. You need to play with it under various conditions and listen and feel how the engine is straining or clattering and advance and retard as needed. Too much advance for a couple of revs won’t hurt the motor, ditto for too retarded. After a while, it becomes habitual.
Bruce
I do appreciate your feedback. When it comes to compression the stock 4.2 is very low so going up to 6.1 should not be an issue unless the engine is ready for a rebuild anyway. My engine is strong and I have no problem playing with the spark advance when needed so the 6.1 sounds like the way to go for me. Thank you and thanks to all for the feedback.

Ron
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Old 04-18-2021, 06:06 AM   #25
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Default Re: SNYDER’S 5.5 head vs 6.1

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This is good advice as well. Will I see a difference in the amount of attention I will need to give the spark advance between the 5.5 and the 6.1?
Most Model-A drivers tend to over-advance, ...meaning they set the initial timing too far advanced which allows too much total advance when the spark lever is pulled all the way down. This really is not complicated other than some people try to overthink this. If someone is concerned/worried about the possibilities of detonation, then they should add an octane booster or just fill the gas tank with a mid-grade or premium grade of fuel. If the price difference between low and mid-grade is a dome, then we are speaking about a dollar more on a fill-up. FWIW, adding oil into the gasoline can lower the octane. If someone is actually using enough oil additive to be effective, (-not just a tablespoon or whatever) then it can increase the possibility of detonation.
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Old 04-18-2021, 07:58 AM   #26
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Default Re: SNYDER’S 5.5 head vs 6.1

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You're not going to feel much difference in the seat of your pants between 5.5 and 6 to 1 in compression.
The problem with performance and a manual advance distributor is you engine timing is only correct at the rpm your timing is set at.. A model a engine runs best at 1 degree advance per 100 rpm..5 degrees at 500 rpm,24 degrees at 2400 rpm.. with the timing fixed you are only correctly timed at one rpm, and you cant run the spark lever by hand to accurately map the timing needs of the engine...if you want an A engine to really perform mechanical advance is the only way to go.
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Old 04-18-2021, 08:40 PM   #27
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Default Re: SNYDER’S 5.5 head vs 6.1

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This is good advice. Do you have a 5.5 or a 6.1?
I actually have a Winfield 7, I was just reporting what I've observed on this forum over the last few years.

I haven't actually gotten the Winfield running yet, I started working on it in December and I've now replaced about half of the engine bay. Any day now!
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Old 04-18-2021, 11:29 PM   #28
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Default Re: SNYDER’S 5.5 head vs 6.1

[QUOTE=alexiskai;2008598]I actually have a Winfield 7, I was just reporting what I've observed on this forum over the last few years.

I haven't actually gotten the Winfield running yet, I started working on it in December and I've now replaced about half of the engine bay. Any day now![/QUOTE


Do you run mechanical advance like Jack talks about? What he said makes perfect sense. I only ran the stock head and I do try to adjust the spark as I drive. You can hear and feel what engine needs but I am sure I am in no way as accurate as mechanical advance. I would however like to keep the spark advance if I can master the 6.1.

Ron
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Old 04-18-2021, 11:37 PM   #29
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Default Re: SNYDER’S 5.5 head vs 6.1

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Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
Most Model-A drivers tend to over-advance, ...meaning they set the initial timing too far advanced which allows too much total advance when the spark lever is pulled all the way down. This really is not complicated other than some people try to overthink this. If someone is concerned/worried about the possibilities of detonation, then they should add an octane booster or just fill the gas tank with a mid-grade or premium grade of fuel. If the price difference between low and mid-grade is a dome, then we are speaking about a dollar more on a fill-up. FWIW, adding oil into the gasoline can lower the octane. If someone is actually using enough oil additive to be effective, (-not just a tablespoon or whatever) then it can increase the possibility of detonation.
Brent
I try to adjust the spark to what my car likes. When I start the car the spark is retarded and after I get it running I drop it a click or two until the engine sounds good to me but it's above 1/2. When I am driving along at 45 to 50 the stock head seams to like it about 1/2 way down. When I am going over 55 I drop it a click or two but my car never seems to like it all the way down even when I am running full out. Is this normal? How different will a 6.1 be from the method I use with my stock head? Forgive the simple questions as I have only had my car a few months.

Thanks
Ron
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Old 04-19-2021, 07:06 AM   #30
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Default Re: SNYDER’S 5.5 head vs 6.1

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Brent
I try to adjust the spark to what my car likes. When I start the car the spark is retarded and after I get it running I drop it a click or two until the engine sounds good to me but it's above 1/2. When I am driving along at 45 to 50 the stock head seams to like it about 1/2 way down. When I am going over 55 I drop it a click or two but my car never seems to like it all the way down even when I am running full out. Is this normal? How different will a 6.1 be from the method I use with my stock head? Forgive the simple questions as I have only had my car a few months.

Thanks
Ron

Ron the asking of simple questions are never an issue for me, ...and yes, I know when you purchased your car, who owned it and where it came from.

While people may believe they can feel what their engine likes, the brutal truth is when the vehicle is placed on a chassis dyno, printed horsepower numbers show differently.

As far as your engine, you telling me the spark lever location means nothing. That lever location is totally affected by the initial timing setting of the distributer cam. As far as total advance, the notch in the distributer body also affects how much advance can be made. Therefore no one here can tell you where the correct spark lever location is until they know the exact dist. cam timing location in relation to the piston.
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Old 04-19-2021, 08:26 AM   #31
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Default Re: SNYDER’S 5.5 head vs 6.1

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Do you run mechanical advance like Jack talks about?
I do use mechanical advance. There are generally two ways to do mechanical advance: on the distributor shaft, using the Phillips/Nu-Rex toroid accessory, or in the distributor body itself using a B or Mallory distributor. I will say, I think the Nu-Rex one is a lot easier to source.

The reason I use mechanical advance isn't so much that I don't believe I couldn't learn to control the spark manually, but rather that I don't want to turn a car that "anyone can drive" into a car that only I can drive. I'm planning to sell this car in a few years, and I'd prefer it if the next owner didn't have to immediately take the cylinder head off in order to feel safe using it.
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Old 04-19-2021, 01:04 PM   #32
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Default Re: SNYDER’S 5.5 head vs 6.1

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Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
Ron the asking of simple questions are never an issue for me, ...and yes, I know when you purchased your car, who owned it and where it came from.

While people may believe they can feel what their engine likes, the brutal truth is when the vehicle is placed on a chassis dyno, printed horsepower numbers show differently.

As far as your engine, you telling me the spark lever location means nothing. That lever location is totally affected by the initial timing setting of the distributer cam. As far as total advance, the notch in the distributer body also affects how much advance can be made. Therefore no one here can tell you where the correct spark lever location is until they know the exact dist. cam timing location in relation to the piston.

Small world Brent.....do you know Terry or Jim? From what I know Terry purchased the Phaeton in 1975 in Miami and then restored it about 12 years back. I got it from his son Jim in Northern Georgia as his Dad could no longer drive it. If you have any more info on my car please send me a private message.

Thanks
Ron
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Old 04-19-2021, 03:28 PM   #33
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Default Re: SNYDER’S 5.5 head vs 6.1

On a different note doe anyone know if the Snyder's head is made in the USA or not?
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Old 04-19-2021, 03:35 PM   #34
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Default Re: SNYDER’S 5.5 head vs 6.1

Still made by Tod in Ohio, aren't they?
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Old 04-19-2021, 10:35 PM   #35
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Default Re: SNYDER’S 5.5 head vs 6.1

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Still made by Tod in Ohio, aren't they?
I sure hope they are still made in Ohio. I work in Manufacturing Quality and the metallurgy of anything from China is junk on a good day. The metal they use is scrap and they do nothing to control the chemistry. I am very proud to say that I have convinced my company that buying from American Foundries at 5 times the cost is less costly than Poor Quality.
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