8RT pulling the heads

[Art Newland]

I have one cylinder on the drivers side that only has about 30 psi. With oil in the cylinder it bumps up to 100. Something is wrong with the rings or maybe the bore is scored... time to look and see.

[SofaKing]

What made you check?

[Art Newland]

Originally Posted by SofaKing

What made you check?

Miss at idle.

[chap52]

Did you squirt some oil in the cylinder and check the compression again. That may help you narrow down if it's a ring issue or not. If the "wet" pressure increases I would "think" rings. But if not it may be a valve not seating properly.

[chap52]

Sorry...forgot what I had just read in your initial post...

[cas3]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

before you pull the head its nice to have some idea what to be looking at. a poor mans cylinder leakage tester: weld an air fitting to a broken spark plug base. put the cyl on top dead of compression stroke, hook up regulated air, 30-40 psi, and listen for the leakage. in the breather tube=rings, carb=intake valve, ex pipe=ex valve. have fun!

[slowforty]

Try dumping slowly a quart of auto transmission fluid down the carb at high idle. It is cheaper than marvel Mystery oil. If nothing else all the carbon will be gone . Dont do this in side. Dont ask how I know.

[Art Newland]

Overall things don't look too bad. Has .080 over pistons, the bores look good, no ridge to speak of just a little carbon. I'd really like to get this truck in "daily driver" shape and be trustworthy so I've decided to pull it and give everything a good looking over. I have a light duty 3-speed to go in it as well and can do it all at the same time. #7 piston has a little chunk missing around the top... that can't be good.

[Bulligen]

Could it be from a piece of broken ring that then flew out the exhaust?

[tubman]

Is the cylinder with the damaged piston the one with low compression? One would assume so, but you know about ass/u/me.

[Art Newland]

Originally Posted by tubman

Is the cylinder with the damaged piston the one with low compression? One would assume so, but you know about ass/u/me.

No, #5 is the low one, #7 (damaged) was 110.

[tubman]

Fifty years ago, I would have buttoned that up and run it. Not these days.

[Art Newland]

How true tubman, if I needed it to drive to work I'd never even have taken it apart! It actually went down the road pretty good. I think it's just time to take a good look inside, maybe I can breathe a little new life in the old girl.

[corvette8n]

Looks a little like the 8BA I owned in 1964, when I drained the oil parts of rings came out. One of my Pistons looked worse than yours, I ended up replacing two pistons and a new set of rings, rod and main bearings, no problems after that.

[Art Newland]

The other head and intake are now off. The RHS cylinder bank look pretty much like the LHS, the bores look good. The valve chamber doesn't look too nasty and I believe there are adjustable lifters in there.

[rotorwrench]

It's not uncommon to find a broken ring on a piston. This can cause a groove to be worn in the cylinder wall due to combustion leakage that happens until the compression gets too low to even fire the cylinder.

[Art Newland]

A couple more bolts in the transmission then out she comes!

[alanwoodieman]

is your truck F1 with a 4 speed? we are going to change out another 4 speed for a syncro 3 speed. we even converted a closed drive 39 1 ton to open drive, a lot of work but well worth the effort for a good driver!!

[Art Newland]

Mine has the crash-box 4 speed, T-59 I think? That was another reason for me to pull the engine. I have a nice three-speed with new syncros and bearings to go in as well. I suppose those 4-speeds were nice around the farm, but on the street they are awful!

[Art Newland]

The deed is done!

What will I find in there? All good things, I hope.

[JSeery]

The adventure continues.

[Art Newland]

Life and old engines are like a box of chocolates...

I'll be looking for lots of advice!

[Ross F-1]

I'm surprised you got it out over the fenders, with the front end up on blocks. With my cherry picker I am barely able to clear the front end with the wheels on the ground. An A-frame would sure be nice.

[Art Newland]

Originally Posted by Ross F-1

I'm surprised you got it out over the fenders, with the front end up on blocks. With my cherry picker I am barely able to clear the front end with the wheels on the ground. An A-frame would sure be nice.

That wasn't a problem, even though I had a forward mounting point on the lift chain (tail of motor drooping) it cleared the front sheet-metal no problem. The problem was the "reach". The engine is a long way back in there! No way I could get a balanced, center pull on the engine. Wasn't really a problem however because I knew I'd have to pull it forward to clear the transmission anyway. It will not be able to go back in that way though, I'll have to figure out something different.

[estout81]

Pull the front clip. That's what I did. Don't even have to remove the hood.

[Art Newland]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I seriously thought about removing the front clip, but I don't have the space indoors to store it.

[Ross F-1]

I used this rig to lift off the intake surface. With a short chain/hook, the engine is near level, and enough lift to clear the front end by 6". VERY nervous having that much weight up that high!

[Art Newland]

I have a couple buddies with bigger hoists than mine, I'll check them out when the time comes. I've used a chain hoist lots in the past, could do that too, chained up into the rafters.

[Ol' Ron]

Once you get this sorted out, replace the heads with EAB heads milled for .050' clearance. This will increase the CR by a point and give better fuel mileage as well.

[Art Newland]

I'll keep and eye out for the heads. Not a lot of Flathead stuff for sale that pops up around here however. Brought home a harbor freight engine stand yesterday and will soon get the engine mounted and start taking it apart. There is a large number stamped in the front under the intake area, any significance?

[tubman]

Probably only to the rebuilder who put it there.

[Art Newland]

Spent a little time getting the engine ready to mount on the stand. The clutch disk and pressure plate look very new. The clutch worked pretty good, so will probably put it back in. One of the pressure plate bolts was missing, turned out that it's broken off in the flywheel. Interesting annotations written on the clutch parts.

[rotorwrench]

The pickups usually use the 10-inch Long type with the 1/3/8" 10-spline disk. That one may be a modified 9.5 Ford Long type that was used in the Ford cars with 1" 10-spline input. Make sure the disk with fit the input on the transmission and the cover fingers fit the throw out bearing. Some folks go this route but it's not common. The clutch builder has to be pretty sharp to get the right parts together.

[Art Newland]

I had read that the car and pickup had different diameter transmission input shafts. The transmission came out of a 35 sedan after a T-5 conversion, but the fellow told me it came out 49 pickup. I did try the disk on the three speed and it fits AOK.

I have the engine on the stand now, RHS exhaust manifold and water-pumps are removed. Haven't broken of any bolts so far.

Next up will be the oil pan.

[Art Newland]

So far the only bad things I've found are;
Pulley is bent, looks like someone had a puller on it, it's not too bad I think I can straighten back out.
The driver side, front, lower exhaust manifold bolt is stripped.
When I removed the divers side exhaust most rearward bolt, engine coolant came out. I hear that's not a deal breaker.

[Art Newland]

A few updates on my “farmer” refresh. First off, apologies to tubman, I mixed things up and indeed the boogered up piston was the lowest compression hole (32 PSI). About a inch of both compression rings not only missing but the large gaps were aligned. Lots of fire shooting past the piston eventually partially melting it. Lots of carbon collected ring below, luckily the lowest ring looks to have contained it some-what. The other low cylinder (70 PSI) top ring was broken in about 5 pieces and the bottom ring had some small chips in the lower face. My guess it was broken installing the piston. Since the other piston's large pieces are missing, and there isn't any sign of the broken off pieces, I think it was installed that way as well.

[Ggmac]

Art , sending pm .
Gary

[Art Newland]

Thanks Gary, but things are looking promising enough that I think I'll put a new set of pistons in.

I snap-gauged and mic-ed all the bores, worse case was .004 taper, a few showed none. I've been driving this truck for about a year, didn't have any issues with water in the oil, overheating, and etc. Next I'll remove the crank and give it a good look over. This engine made no nasty noises, no vibration, started easily. I put a dial gauge on the valves to see how how much they are opening. I consistently read .280 on the intakes and .282 on the exhaust. So depending on the clearances it's probably close to .300, I read .307 on both is new, sound usable?

[tubman]

Wow! "Takes a likkin' and keeps on tickin'". Amazing what a flathead can take and still be reliable transportation; it's what go me through grad school.

[Ol' Ron]

One thing you want to check is the Air fuel ratio. It looks like the engine was running rich, this will wash the cylinder wall of oil causing this kind of trouble, and flathead like to run rich, unfortunately, it's not good for them

[GB SISSON]

I also am a fan of home shop overhauls. Looks like you have everything covered and am glad to see a neighbor just across the sound going at it the way you are. I would be interested in that crash box 4 speed if it needs a home. Lots of V8 and truck stuff over here for trades if you end up needing parts.

[Art Newland]

Ron, when I bought the truck not only did the accelerator pump not work, but the linkage to it was missing. Idle mixtures were really rich, I'm sure to help compensate for the lack of the pump. One of the first things I did was to rebuild the Holley 94. Double clutching without an accelerator pump is nearly impossible! It has #51 jets, I figure once I get it running better and can dial in the jets if need be.

After I got the carb working, got all the proper pulleys and belts installed, pulled the rats nest of wiring out and made a simple harness with enough to start and run the engine, charge the battery, and run the brake lights I got to go for a drive!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZZny4uzBs8

[Art Newland]

GB SISSON, we are probably only about 20 miles away from one another as the crow flys! This old 4 speed is now officially yours! The only thing I'll miss is the whine... classic old truck sound. I think the tranny is in good shape, the shifter seems sloppy though. The drive-line is yours too if you want it, won't work with the lite duty three-speed. I've got a NOS slip-joint and guess I'll have to have a drive-line made. About the only things I'm looking for at this time is a transmission cover (mine's all rusted out!) and a 6 volt generator so I can convert it back to 6 volt positive ground. Regardless, you can have the transmission.

I'm of the mind set now to do as little "evasive" work to these old engines as possible and still get a good runner. My original intention with my 30 coupe was to pick up an engine in good enough shape to get me by while I had the other professionally rebuilt. I went through the 2nd engine, cleaned it up good, new rings and hone job, and lapped valves as needed. I scored a nice Brummfield 5.9 head and she's running great. With my confidence built up I've looked over my original engine and other that the cam being pretty worn I think it is pretty salvageable the way it is.

I'm really looking forward to getting the F1 back on the road for the summer.

[Art Newland]

The crank is out and things look pretty good. Main bearings are -.020 and clearance is .0015-.0020, if the thrust bearing wasn't so worn, they could probably be re-used. Timing gears look very good too, things are looking promising. Checked the valve lash too as a go no-go with min and max feeler gauges, all are within spec/range but I'll go dial them in later. Found blue paint under the flaking red. Lots of cleanup to do then I'll look at the valves.

[Art Newland]

Things have come to a screeching halt.
I've found two cracks from exhaust to cylinders... drat. Strange that I wasn't experiencing any water in the crankcase, that I could detect anyway.

[tubman]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I'm not surprised that you had no leaks. Years ago, I had an engine that didn't leak but needed rings, I pulled it apart, honed the cylinders, and put in a $17.95 set of rings from Sears. When I was cleaning up the block surface I noticed that I had 7 (seven!) of those cracks. I figured since it didn't leak before, it was OK, so I shrugged my shoulders and bolted it back together. It took a couple of bottles of "Barr's Leaks", but it ran fine and didn't leak to any extant. Unfortunately, what served as an adequate repair in 1961 wouldn't pass muster now (although, I might just try it with only two cracks, while I was looking for another engine).

[Art Newland]

I guess it's a "what do I have to lose" scenario.

[tubman]

I'm with you, my friend. Unless you have a Merc crank, all of the internal parts are cheap and easy to find if it blows up. It'll probably go another 40,000 miles with a "home shop overhaul", though. Also, the "Irontite" thread seems to show that there are multiple miracle block sealers out there.

[Art Newland]

I've been putting in a few hours a day on my "red-neck" rebuild. I have all the valves on the LHS loose. I've released the keepers and the guides are still in place. I've done a little "lapping" on them to see if it will even be feasible to clean them up without machine work. Most are very good, one is a little rough and one is down-right nasty. I have been in contact with a local machinist that speaks "flathead" and will have him take a look at the cracks and see what he thinks.

[Tinker]

Looking good. I like your style.

My 36 was popping and couldn't even drive it on the trailer when I bought it, some timing issues too. 95 across the board but one cyc at 30 (surprising it was that much). Heads off and found a burnt valve. A kind gentlemen here sold me a very nice used valve assembly for 7$. Lapped. Been driving it for 4yrs now, solid compression. Not a daily driver mind you, but I drive it as much as I can.

Enjoying your progress!

[Art Newland]

Anyway you look at it, it will be better than it was! I figure at the least it's a great learning experience. A Model A buddy of mine tells me he has a flathead seat grinding setup, I might need to go get it and test it for him. 8^)

[Art Newland]

BTW, there are seats in every hole so it must be a older engine. I suppose it's possible it's the original but have no idea really

[Art Newland]

I bought this el-cheapo valve spring compressor from Amazon, works well on this engine.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Art Newland]

Plans have changed a bit.

Found a nice engine locally, bought the stand and all. Looks like it has all necessary parts to go in my F1 except for the oil pan. Even the clutch looks correct but I need to pull it out and take a look.

[Ggmac]

Nice score . Good to see some are still out there

[JSeery]

Nice find!

[Art Newland]

I'm enjoying working on these engines and now I'll have the test stand to run them on. The fellow I bought it from has quite a collection of extremely nice autos, and now he is thinning the herd. He has owned it for 6 years and has only fired it up a time or two for people to hear it run. The gas is old but it still started up easily.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItCXe0zqwgc

[tubman]

If you do more than one or two engines in your life, you'll really appreciate having a test stand. I built mine about 4 years ago to test run an early hemi I found, and since have had two flatheads on it. Next up is my '51 Olds Rocket. I built mine with the mounting part of one of those cheap 3-wheeled engine stands at the rear so I can easily mount most types of engines.

[Art Newland]

Built a simple storage stand for my Model A engine, ended up running it on it before I installed it in the car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UABtaPsSZ0Q

[Art Newland]

GB SISSON, We'll have to hook up someday. Crashbox is out!

[Gideon]

I'm wondering if I should pull the heads off my 8RT milk truck motor. I'm also afraid I'll just be opening up a can of worms.

[Art Newland]

If it's running OK, I wouldn't. Mine missed at idle and it drove me crazy. A leak-down test (or at least a compression test) would tell you a lot.

[Art Newland]

I ran my "new to me" engine some more today. It starves for fuel at about 1000 rpm, either the electric fuel-pump on the stand isn't doing it's thing, filter is plugged, or the carb has got crud in it, it looks spotless down the throat. It's not a Holley 94, it's marked "EC" and "1 1/16". There appears to be a PVC valve on it. And it has the "oil filter to no-where".

[Ross F-1]

That would be the Holley 2110, used on Y-blocks. It is based on the 94 but with some improvements and higher flow, bigger throttle bores and venturis.

[Art Newland]

Originally Posted by Ross F-1

That would be the Holley 2110, used on Y-blocks. It is based on the 94 but with some improvements and higher flow, bigger throttle bores and venturis.

So since everything I've read about "load-a-matic", this 2110 works OK with the stock distributor? How about the PVC, does it screw up the sensitive vacuum needed to operate the LAM?

[tubman]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

If it's got the port on the back, it's designed to function properly with a Load-a-Matic. I have had a number of both kinds apart and cannot see how there could be a significant difference on how they operate. About a PVC valve interferring with the distributor vacuum, that is something I have never even considered; perhaps someone else ("Bubba"?) may be able to shed some light on the subject.

[Art Newland]

Moved my fuel pump and carb (7RT) to the new engine and its got pretty good throttle response now. The spark plugs are pretty carboned up, I'll probably just replace them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-BwooaXbqs

[Art Newland]

While waiting for a few more parts to show up so I can start installing the new engine, I've turned my attention back to the "red neck" rebuild. While putting the last fine touches on the valve lash, out of the corner of my eye I noticed a distinct difference in the casting up inside the Canadian block I bought.

[Ross F-1]

I've seen them both ways. On some it appears that when they machined the hole for the WP it took out part of that, on others it appears to have completely removed it.

[Art Newland]

Getting some pistons!

[Tinker]

I'd remove the idea of the vacuum advance dizzy by going with a bubba unit. Then you can also run any carb or more if you like. Not a 8ba guy btw.


Nice work and project!

[Art Newland]

Haven't had loads of time to work on flathead projects but the old engine is re-assembled as a short-block and will go on the test stand after I get my new engine installed in my pickup. I'm swapping oil pans/pickups now, new engine came with an 11 inch clutch that looks brand new, the truck came with a 9.5 inch hybrid setup but has had some oil on it. I'd like to put the 9.5 inch back in but the new 11 inch is calling to me. I went over things under the pan with a torque wrench to be sure and all looked good. The crank is marked with EAB, I believe that means late model 239, correct?

[Ggmac]

Nice . Keep up the good work and hope it purrs like a kitten

[JSeery]

Depending on your objectives the 9.5 would probably be the better option.

[Art Newland]

Originally Posted by JSeery

Depending on your objectives the 9.5 would probably be the better option.

Yea, will be just a drive for fun kinda truck, undoubtedly my left leg would thank me later for the 9.5 unit. Doesn't appear to be something you can just run out and buy/order however. I'd have to send it out to be re-lined... any recommendation?

[tubman]

Fort Wayne clutch. I got my last one there and the clutch in my '51 is the best it's ever been.

[B-O-B]

Ft Wayne is the best. Quick turn around also.

[Art Newland]

I'm also thinking about locating a flywheel for a 10 inch clutch and just putting it back stock... seems like someone went to a lot of trouble to get a 9.5 inch in there. I know the flywheel could be drilled for a different pressure-plate, I might check into that as well.

[Art Newland]

Got her looking pretty.

[Art Newland]

After 10 months my F-1 is drive-able again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy64_gtj54o&t=52s

[leon bee]

Looks real good. I'm soon dragging home a 50 F1, I might have a couple truck questions for you later.

[Art Newland]

I'm hardly any expert but I'd help out if I can. I'm sure all the guys on the barn would like to see your project.

[leon bee]

Art, here's an easy truck question. I've taken some pictures of the F1 over where it lives now. How many actual pieces go between this crossmember and the 3 speed I have here on my bench? Looked around for illustrations and it isn't clear yet, can't find a good picture.

[leon bee]

Now in that picture it likes that has been welded on by somebody?

[Art Newland]

should be a couple holes through that welded area for the tranny mount.

[leon bee]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Best picture yet. So there is only on piece I need to acquire? Has a bunch of rubber on it? I've seen those for sale.

[Art Newland]

This what I used;
https://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_t...all-v8-f1.html

(V8)

[leon bee]

Okay, I'll put that on my wish list.

[GB SISSON]

Very cool Art! That thing really does shift nicely and the steering looks effortless and straight. Congrats on a great job and thanks for that 4 speed. I'm piecing together a tonner PU and will be installing that tranny over the winter. It was fun to meet you and see your collection.

[Art Newland]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Very cool Art! That thing really does shift nicely and the steering looks effortless and straight. Congrats on a great job and thanks for that 4 speed. I'm piecing together a tonner PU and will be installing that tranny over the winter. It was fun to meet you and see your collection.

I'm getting there, slow but sure. I saw that you were out to the tractor/steam show, I would've stopped and said hello but we were in the middle of moving and didn't make it this year. I love that old machinery.

I'm glad you can use that crash-box, I would've hated to see it go to the scrap pile. BTW, I've got a pretty nice looking 11 inch disk and pressure plate I wont use, it's yours if you want it?

Was Orcas hit with all the nasty smoke?

[Art Newland]

Redneck rebuild teaser;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gcvg...ature=youtu.be

[Art Newland]

Got her fired up, running pretty good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMtrdzoUg7Y