T-5 flathead question

[texas webb]

Couldnt get on the hamb this am.Are there any problems adapting a T-5 from an 86 4x4 s-10 to a flathead?Thanx to any replies,Webb.

[jan bogert]

i used a 2 wheel drive. i cut the tip of the input shaft about7/8" i then had to take the input bushing and have that opened up to 13/16" plus.010 of an inch. i cut back the thro out bearing shaft on the trans about a 1/2" got a c/disc from Dick Spardo. don't know what your putting it in. mines in a '31 coupe old school with model a pedal ass. JAN.

[texas webb]

Thanx Jan.Mines a 31 Murray 4door w/51 merc flathead(in progress)I've got truck bell and hogshead with shaft type t/o bearing still looking for clutch/brake assy to match.

[Flat Ernie]

Originally Posted by texas webb

Couldnt get on the hamb this am.Are there any problems adapting a T-5 from an 86 4x4 s-10 to a flathead?Thanx to any replies,Webb.

Unless you're going to use one of the torque-tube adapters, you'll have fun adapting the rear of that 4x4 trans to a driveshaft...it bolts to the transfer case with a splined shaft and a seal on the outer end. The flange is flat, round, and large. Talk with Dan Bridges (Crazydaddyo on the HAMB) or Steve Serr for the adapter...it will require frame & torque-tube surgery.

[texas webb]

Thanx Ernie.I'll keep looking for a 83-87 s-10.I do have a 46-48 open truck banjo 3:73

[John Kennedy]

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I used a Dwight Bond adapter between my T5 and hogshead. Fits great, glad I spent the extra couple bucks for the pedal arm mount too.

[texas webb]

John did you use car/truck pedals floor mount and shaft type t/o bearing assy,thanx Webb.

[Ol' Ron]

Hard to understand why no one makes an adapter for the Ford T-5 and the 8BA bellhousing. I understand GM went to the Ford bolt pattern and the gear ratios are better????????????

[Ralph Moore]

There's a write up in the latest R&C mag that goes into the Flathead/T-5 matchup. They post alot of suppliers for this mod as well.

[MARVIN, CT]

I put an '87 Mustang 2.3 (a freebie from a friend) on to my 60hp using an 85hp bell housing and a home made adaptor plate. I'm using 3.9 gears in the rear, all seems to work out so far. Was good to have an old 60hp block for mocking up, would have been a bear to do in the car. Marvin

[Ol' Ron]

Nice job, too bad they don't make them for the 8BA.

[jan bogert]

Texas Webb, if you have the hogs head, get an adaptor from Dwight Bond. and get the one that accepts the model a pedal ass. i did and i'm very glad i did. go to my posts i have some photos of the pedal ass. if your putting it in am A you move the battery an your master cyl. goes there off the frame. i have photos of it JAN.

[John Kennedy]

Texas Webb,
Jan's ahead of me on the build process. I plan to use the stock pedals, or similar when I get that far.
As far as t-bearings, I haven't gotten that far either. Just bolted together for mockup now. I do know you reuse the Ford trans bearing retainer in the Bond adapter and the T5 slips inside that, I suppose the Ford t-bearing and shaft are used as well.

[texas webb]

Thanx to all replies.I'm also in slow build mode,finding, gathering local, hamb and the barn.I was thinking I could use pedal assy from ford/merc or truck around same year as my eng.Dick Spadaro sent me his catalogue I'll try to get hold of Bond but heard he may not produce any till more needs from us builders.I'm also useing my stock A frame.

[donald1950]

i used a dewight bond addaptor (that also uses the stock ford throwout collor and throwout assembly and return spring) and hogs head in my 41 pickup and it fit like a dream. had less than a thousandth of runout with all 3 addaptors in place. and all the throwout parts are stock ford. used teh stock 41 pedal assemnly in the truck. i found a 6 spring T5 disk and a 6 spring ford disk and had the chev hub reversed for clearance and swapped into the ford disk at Service Parts and Machine on Probant St, see Werner Prochaw there. he has done a bunch of modifacations on clutches for T5 swaps for me. good people and very creative. PM me if i can help... don

[texas webb]

Don,sent you a PM this am but I've been out junkyarding for tne wife's truck.

[butchbov]

I'm running a home made adapter on the stock bell on my 49 8ba. Works fine & didn't cost an arm & a leg.

[texas webb]

Butch,would you have a pix?Thanx,Webb.

[Richard in Florida]

Originally Posted by texas webb

Couldnt get on the hamb this am.Are there any problems adapting a T-5 from an 86 4x4 s-10 to a flathead?Thanx to any replies,Webb.

If you use a T5 with Ford input shaft and a Ford bolt pattern, life gets easier in a hurry. You can use the stock pilot bearing or bushing, the stock throwout bearing and all the clutch linkage, the stock flywheel and pressure plate. All you have to buy is a clutch disk with the same spline as the T5 input shaft. All you need then is a simple flat adapter plate. Any machine shop can make you one.

[Ol' Ron]

See what I mean, why make things complicated. I made one of these and if I was younger I'd mass produce them

[texas webb]

Originally Posted by Richard in Florida

If you use a T5 with Ford input shaft and a Ford bolt pattern, life gets easier in a hurry. You can use the stock pilot bearing or bushing, the stock throwout bearing and all the clutch linkage, the stock flywheel and pressure plate. All you have to buy is a clutch disk with the same spline as the T5 input shaft. All you need then is a simple flat adapter plate. Any machine shop can make you one.

Richard do you mean using a ford t-5 vs one from an s-10? I'm still learing,thanx.

[donald1950]

richard, is your shifter at the rear of the tailhousing (like mustang and camero) or did they use an S10 tailhousing with the shifter just behind the rear of the main trans case when you had it built? in other words, a ford main transmission case with a chev S10 tailhousing?

[bobscogin]

Most folks use the S-10 T5 because it has the best shifter position for early Fords. Of course, the S-10 tailshaft housing can be installed on the Ford T5, but many would just rather use the S-10 and be done with it.

Bob

[Ol' Ron]

Richar will have to fill in the facts, but GM went to the Ford bolt pattern a while back, so the shifter is in the right place for most applications. He did however change the gears to Ford.
The ford case adapts to the 8BA bell housing with the pictured adapter.

[quickchange34]

Richard you are right, if you use the ford life is real easy. I have made a few.

[jan bogert]

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Texas Webb here is a photo in mock-up. but the arm for the throw-out bearing you position to 4:00/4:30 to have enough throw.i made the mistake and welded it at that pos. also the arm is from my model a. and make the m/cyl. push arm off the bottom of the brake pedal short like mine. because ther's math involved. that piece is the stock one off the model a pedal, from the mechanical brakes. hope this helps. JAN. if i can help just email me.

[texas webb]

Thanx Jan.I see what you meant in earlier post.Ron I have a merc 8CM guessing the same bellhousing,so no need for truck bell&hogshead?

[Richard in Florida]

Originally Posted by texas webb

Richard do you mean using a Ford T5 vs one from an S10? I'm still learning,thanx.

Not necessarily. One of the beautiful things about T5s is that virtually any main case can be bolted to virtually any tail section. This is how I ended up with the absolute ideal transmission in my '53 Victoria.

After a great deal of research and investigation I learned that the location of the shifter on an S10 T5 would put the stick WAY forward in my '53. This would call for a long stick, and this would mean a long throw between gears with the stick moving vertically almost as much as it moved horizontally. Very awkward and not at all cool.

At the other extreme, a Mustang or Camaro T5 would put the stick nearly under the edge of the front seat. Also no good. What to do...

Then I discovered the T5 used in Chevy Astro Vans; this tail section had the shifter about halfway between those of the other two boxes. It seemed ideal, and it is.

I'm lucky enough to have just a few miles from me one the world's premier remanufacturers of T5s... Astro Performance. They specialize in race-strong versions of the T5 and other Tremec boxes. I explained what I was trying to do and about the shifter locations, and they did the rest.

They started with an Astro Van main case that had a Ford bolt pattern, put in a Ford input shaft, installed a gear set with the coveted 2.95 first gear and a .72 5th gear, put a GM output shaft in the tail section to make yoke selection easy, and topped it off with a shifter from an S10 to replace to weird Mickey Mouse offset Astro Van shifter.

I ended up with a virtually brand-new T5 with new bearings, mostly new gears, new synchros, new seals, and so forth. Much better than an unknown quantity from a friend or junkyard.

There are million more details, and I'm happy to share them, but that's my basic story. I am thoroughly enjoying my T5.

[texas webb]

Richard,thanx for all that info.I may call upon you for more when I get to that stage.I've also enjoyed your research in fuel economy.Thanx again,Webb.

[bobscogin]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

Richar will have to fill in the facts, but GM went to the Ford bolt pattern a while back, so the shifter is in the right place for most applications.

The S10/S15 went to a World Class Ford bolt pattern T5 sometime during the '93 model year and used it through '95, so it's a relatively rare transmission compared to the Chevy pattern version. That change was concurrent with the '93 model year (4th gen.) F body GM cars which also received the WC Ford pattern T5. Those, however, have the shifter all the way back on the tailshaft housing.

Bob

[Richard in Florida]

Originally Posted by texas webb

Richard, thanx for all that info. I may call upon you for more when I get to that stage. I've also enjoyed your research in fuel economy. Thanx again, Webb.

There are several other important considerations, such as:
• Thickness of the adapter plate - one size does NOT fit all!
• And maybe THE MOST IMPORTANT thing is concentricity --- making sure the center of the crankshaft is exactly in line with the input shaft of the T5.
• Rear transmission mount. I was able to reverse and modify the original factor trans mount.
• Speedometer accuracy. This could be a seminar in itself. I have extra driven gears left over from my experiments. The calculators only get you close.
• Yoke for the driveshaft.
• New driveshaft. Almost inespacable.
• Using the CORRECT fluid: Dex/Merc III. NOT IV!
• And lots more.

[butchbov]

Here's a link to my pictures. feel free to browse, it's all public. http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v6.../T5%20Install/

I started with a 88 S10 nonWC trans, but have since swapped it out for a 93 S10 WC trans with a 88 S10 tailshaft.

[Richard in Florida]

Here are a few shots showing the adapter between the transmission and the bellhousing, and the finished shifter in the cabin.