The Ford Barn

66miles · 01-30-2014, 10:04 PM

I know you guys love to laugh once in a while, so go ahead n laugh away! OK, now you're done here's the question. Do stock Ford head gaskets have a right n wrong, up n down, or back to front? I'm lookin at my new gaskets and scratchin my head hard, but I cant see much of a difference either way. They are copper gaskets and are totally symmetrical so it is possible to fit them either way. They have a notch in one end which corresponds to a similar notch on the old gaskets. Only difference between the old and new is on the old ones the notch end has the word FRONT embossed near the notch. OK so I've figured the notch end is the front of the block. But when fitted this way one bank ends up with the "flat" copper side to the block, while the other bank ends up with the "rolled edge" copper side to the block. What am I missing here?

ThomasN · 01-30-2014, 10:15 PM

The older ones i used had top written on it. Later 8ba, ones will only fit the one

66miles · 01-30-2014, 10:26 PM

This is a 99 number canadian Merc motor (I'm told that's 1939). I was going to fit the thing with the "flat" copper side to the block, figuring that you wouldn't want the rolled copper edge exposed to the combustion pressures. Then I realised that one of the gaskets will end up that way no matter how you do this.

Bassman/NZ · 01-30-2014, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 66miles

I know you guys love to laugh once in a while, so go ahead n laugh away! OK, now you're done here's the question. Do stock Ford head gaskets have a right n wrong, up n down, or back to front? I'm lookin at my new gaskets and scratchin my head hard, but I cant see much of a difference either way. They are copper gaskets and are totally symmetrical so it is possible to fit them either way. They have a notch in one end which corresponds to a similar notch on the old gaskets. Only difference between the old and new is on the old ones the notch end has the word FRONT embossed near the notch. OK so I've figured the notch end is the front of the block. But when fitted this way one bank ends up with the "flat" copper side to the block, while the other bank ends up with the "rolled edge" copper side to the block. What am I missing here?

Front goes to the front whether its up or down, doesn't matter. There is a slight difference in that one hole at the rear is slightly bigger than the corresponding one at the front. BTW: your block and head surfaces must be totally clean of old gasket, like run a razor-blade over them clean.

66miles · 01-30-2014, 10:32 PM

Thanks Bassman. I spent an excrutiating couple of hours on the block alone (razor style paint scaper blade). Those studs made it real hard work!

Jack E/NJ · 01-30-2014, 10:53 PM

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And don't neglect to slather a liberal layer of grease on all 4 surfaces. You'll be glad you did next time you have to replace the gaskets.

Jack E/NJ

66miles · 01-30-2014, 11:05 PM

Thanks Jack! I was gonna smear a thin coating of Gasket-Goo over both sides before bolting it back down cos the surfaces are pretty good but NOT quite perfect enough to trust the gasket alone to do the job. Don't wanna take chances. PS: What is the grease you mentioned, and does it take the place of gasket sealant or do you use it in conjunction with a sealant?

41 Fords ohio · 01-31-2014, 02:21 AM

I've always used a white bearing grease. Smear it on thick on both sides of your head gaskets, just the grease nothing else.Lube your studs and the inside of the nuts. Some people like to use Permatex Copper Spray on their gaskets. It works real well also.

66miles · 01-31-2014, 03:08 AM

I'm guessing the good thing about the white lithium grease would be that you can go crazy with it and if you over do it and it ends up squishing out into the water passages or even the combustion chamber, it would soon melt away and cause no further probs.

BILL WZOREK · 01-31-2014, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 66miles

But when fitted this way one bank ends up with the "flat" copper side to the block, while the other bank ends up with the "rolled edge" copper side to the block. What am I missing here?

Once again "I WAS TAUGHT" roll in up position so compression helps keep it sealed.}}}}} THAT BEING SAID, the way it is now you will have
1 up 1 down.

Just wondering if that is a case of the gasket companys feeling that
they make better gaskets now then were made before? so one size fits both sides now. Or was / is it for cost cutting reason ?

Here is a Question of the elders ( that is said with respect ) at one point and time was there a designated left & right gasket so that the Rolled part could be both installed the same / either up or down ??

Walt Dupont--Me. · 01-31-2014, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BILL WZOREK

Once again "I WAS TAUGHT" roll in up position so compression helps keep it sealed.}}}}} THAT BEING SAID, the way it is now you will have
1 up 1 down.

Just wondering if that is a case of the gasket companys feeling that
they make better gaskets now then were made before? so one size fits both sides now. Or was / is it for cost cutting reason ?

Here is a Question of the elders ( that is said with respect ) at one point and time was there a designated left & right gasket so that the Rolled part could be both installed the same / either up or down ??

Yes Bill, I've built every make of engine and we use to put the rolled side up, but on the flathead the notch goes to the front and notice 2 small water holes one on each end, the bigger hole goes to the rear, so one gasket will be upside down. Walt

BILL WZOREK · 01-31-2014, 07:19 AM

Walt:
I know that is true Now but was there ever a left & Right gasket so that both gaskets could be orientated lg holes to rear & roll side on both could be placed up???

JWL · 01-31-2014, 07:49 AM

Why would it ever be important for the "roll side" to be "up"??? I am speaking specifically about the "roll" and not with regard to hole orientation.

BILL WZOREK · 01-31-2014, 08:24 AM

What I came to understand is that if roll is up,the compression would help keep it sealed making the roll compress , if roll is down they felt the compression might be able to work its way in between the roll and the gasket per say.
Not having any other reason to dought it I have always done it that way.
But on our Flatheads now I guess we can be right & wrong On the same build ( what do you know politically correct head gaskets can not be offended no matter your school of thought )

flatjack9 · 01-31-2014, 09:48 AM

The roll is compressed the same whether it is up or down. Can't see that it matters.

Bruce Lancaster · 01-31-2014, 10:04 AM

Another gasket thing for prewar 24 studs, like your 99A...these came originally with gaskets with big trapezoidal holes in the center vertical row. After the war, Ford went to the 59A gasket with all round holes there. Overhaul book says to use the late gasket on the early engines and to redrill 2 or 3 of the holes in the center area of head if using the prewar heads...I've got the locations and sizes here somewhere. This is supposed to improve the coolant flow distribution.

BILL WZOREK · 01-31-2014, 10:04 AM

You May be correct BUT DAD taught me & DAD IS ALWAYS RIGHT " end of story "

LOL LOL

Ronnie · 01-31-2014, 10:21 AM

Makes no difference in the seal what side is up when installed ..You only follow the mfg instructions as to left or right front or back up or down.A new ford 302 as an example only has 1 gasket made for it not left or right.Same one on both sides "only" it has a front marked on it.Thet being said you end up with the bore flange up on side and down on the other,works the way it was supposed to..Felpro make that same gasket with an added tiny bead of silicone on it,installed you get silicone up on one side and down on the other.That proves that the silicone doesn't have to be there on that application but it sure sold them a pile of gaskets.This is true for most of the ford family engines.If it wasn't that way you would end up with a bunch of engines with l/h and r/h gaskets just to keep the orientation uniform. I worked for McCord gaskets for 5 years,got that question many times over.Follow the instructions the manufactures want a happy customer not someone who say's don't use that s*it it doesn't work.
Same as packing an oil pump with Vaseline do Melling have that in their instructions?? Phone the tech department and they will give you very friendly advice on that subject and will help you out. OK jumping off my soap box now "lol"

R

john mullen · 01-31-2014, 12:42 PM

JMO the compression don't know which way the gasket is installed ...same pressure on both sides .I don't know about old oem gaskets as to a top or bottom so I won't comment . I myself have not rebuilt any that had not already had a rebuild done before I got.. I have not seen the factory ones as installed...sorry I can't help you there

66miles · 01-31-2014, 01:59 PM

Thanks guys. As always, there seems to be a variety of opinions. Bill, like you I figured if there is a side that would be best lookin down at the piston crown it would be the flat non-rolled side. Same reasoning, so that the combustion pressure cant find it's way under that rolled edge. Perhaps it dont matter either way. I guess we would have a whole lot more failed head gaskets if it did!

01-30-2014, 10:04 PM	#1
66miles Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Wellsford - NZ 0900 Posts: 214	Do head gaskets have an up n a down? I know you guys love to laugh once in a while, so go ahead n laugh away! OK, now you're done here's the question. Do stock Ford head gaskets have a right n wrong, up n down, or back to front? I'm lookin at my new gaskets and scratchin my head hard, but I cant see much of a difference either way. They are copper gaskets and are totally symmetrical so it is possible to fit them either way. They have a notch in one end which corresponds to a similar notch on the old gaskets. Only difference between the old and new is on the old ones the notch end has the word FRONT embossed near the notch. OK so I've figured the notch end is the front of the block. But when fitted this way one bank ends up with the "flat" copper side to the block, while the other bank ends up with the "rolled edge" copper side to the block. What am I missing here?

01-30-2014, 10:15 PM	#2
ThomasN Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Spokane Wa. Posts: 271	Re: Do head gaskets have an up n a down? The older ones i used had top written on it. Later 8ba, ones will only fit the one

01-30-2014, 10:26 PM	#3
66miles Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Wellsford - NZ 0900 Posts: 214	Re: Do head gaskets have an up n a down? This is a 99 number canadian Merc motor (I'm told that's 1939). I was going to fit the thing with the "flat" copper side to the block, figuring that you wouldn't want the rolled copper edge exposed to the combustion pressures. Then I realised that one of the gaskets will end up that way no matter how you do this.

01-30-2014, 10:32 PM	#5
66miles Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Wellsford - NZ 0900 Posts: 214	Re: Do head gaskets have an up n a down? Thanks Bassman. I spent an excrutiating couple of hours on the block alone (razor style paint scaper blade). Those studs made it real hard work!

01-30-2014, 10:53 PM	#6
Jack E/NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,173	Re: Do head gaskets have an up n a down? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) And don't neglect to slather a liberal layer of grease on all 4 surfaces. You'll be glad you did next time you have to replace the gaskets. Jack E/NJ

01-30-2014, 11:05 PM	#7
66miles Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Wellsford - NZ 0900 Posts: 214	Re: Do head gaskets have an up n a down? Thanks Jack! I was gonna smear a thin coating of Gasket-Goo over both sides before bolting it back down cos the surfaces are pretty good but NOT quite perfect enough to trust the gasket alone to do the job. Don't wanna take chances. PS: What is the grease you mentioned, and does it take the place of gasket sealant or do you use it in conjunction with a sealant?

01-31-2014, 02:21 AM	#8
41 Fords ohio Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Salt Lake City,Utah Posts: 141	Re: Do head gaskets have an up n a down? I've always used a white bearing grease. Smear it on thick on both sides of your head gaskets, just the grease nothing else.Lube your studs and the inside of the nuts. Some people like to use Permatex Copper Spray on their gaskets. It works real well also. __________________ When will I be old enough to know better?

01-31-2014, 03:08 AM	#9
66miles Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Wellsford - NZ 0900 Posts: 214	Re: Do head gaskets have an up n a down? I'm guessing the good thing about the white lithium grease would be that you can go crazy with it and if you over do it and it ends up squishing out into the water passages or even the combustion chamber, it would soon melt away and cause no further probs.

01-31-2014, 07:19 AM	#12
BILL WZOREK Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Florence Ma. Posts: 2,404	Re: Do head gaskets have an up n a down? Walt: I know that is true Now but was there ever a left & Right gasket so that both gaskets could be orientated lg holes to rear & roll side on both could be placed up???

01-31-2014, 07:49 AM	#13
JWL Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fitzgerald, Georgia Posts: 2,204	Re: Do head gaskets have an up n a down? Why would it ever be important for the "roll side" to be "up"??? I am speaking specifically about the "roll" and not with regard to hole orientation.

01-31-2014, 08:24 AM	#14
BILL WZOREK Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Florence Ma. Posts: 2,404	Re: Do head gaskets have an up n a down? What I came to understand is that if roll is up,the compression would help keep it sealed making the roll compress , if roll is down they felt the compression might be able to work its way in between the roll and the gasket per say. Not having any other reason to dought it I have always done it that way. But on our Flatheads now I guess we can be right & wrong On the same build ( what do you know politically correct head gaskets can not be offended no matter your school of thought )

01-31-2014, 09:48 AM	#15
flatjack9 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oshkosh, Wi Posts: 4,526	Re: Do head gaskets have an up n a down? The roll is compressed the same whether it is up or down. Can't see that it matters.

01-31-2014, 10:04 AM	#16
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Do head gaskets have an up n a down? Another gasket thing for prewar 24 studs, like your 99A...these came originally with gaskets with big trapezoidal holes in the center vertical row. After the war, Ford went to the 59A gasket with all round holes there. Overhaul book says to use the late gasket on the early engines and to redrill 2 or 3 of the holes in the center area of head if using the prewar heads...I've got the locations and sizes here somewhere. This is supposed to improve the coolant flow distribution.

01-31-2014, 10:21 AM	#18
Ronnie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Canada Where it snows Posts: 2,058	Re: Do head gaskets have an up n a down? Makes no difference in the seal what side is up when installed ..You only follow the mfg instructions as to left or right front or back up or down.A new ford 302 as an example only has 1 gasket made for it not left or right.Same one on both sides "only" it has a front marked on it.Thet being said you end up with the bore flange up on side and down on the other,works the way it was supposed to..Felpro make that same gasket with an added tiny bead of silicone on it,installed you get silicone up on one side and down on the other.That proves that the silicone doesn't have to be there on that application but it sure sold them a pile of gaskets.This is true for most of the ford family engines.If it wasn't that way you would end up with a bunch of engines with l/h and r/h gaskets just to keep the orientation uniform. I worked for McCord gaskets for 5 years,got that question many times over.Follow the instructions the manufactures want a happy customer not someone who say's don't use that s*it it doesn't work. Same as packing an oil pump with Vaseline do Melling have that in their instructions?? Phone the tech department and they will give you very friendly advice on that subject and will help you out. OK jumping off my soap box now "lol" R

01-31-2014, 12:42 PM	#19
john mullen Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Lanexa Va Posts: 254	Re: Do head gaskets have an up n a down? JMO the compression don't know which way the gasket is installed ...same pressure on both sides .I don't know about old oem gaskets as to a top or bottom so I won't comment . I myself have not rebuilt any that had not already had a rebuild done before I got.. I have not seen the factory ones as installed...sorry I can't help you there

01-31-2014, 01:59 PM	#20
66miles Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Wellsford - NZ 0900 Posts: 214	Re: Do head gaskets have an up n a down? Thanks guys. As always, there seems to be a variety of opinions. Bill, like you I figured if there is a side that would be best lookin down at the piston crown it would be the flat non-rolled side. Same reasoning, so that the combustion pressure cant find it's way under that rolled edge. Perhaps it dont matter either way. I guess we would have a whole lot more failed head gaskets if it did!