The Ford Barn

Henry Floored · 11-23-2016, 09:59 PM

I'd like to see some real testing between modern low tension 3 ring pistons vs original type 4 ring designs as they relate to drag and cylinder wall wear. Common sense tells me that the newer designs would be be far more forgiving on the cylinder walls but the real data would tell the tale.

tubman · 11-23-2016, 10:16 PM

Gary,

You're right of course, but on a practical basis how many of us are going to put near that number of miles on one of these cars? I drive my car a lot in the summer up here in Minnesota, and I put about 20,000 miles on it over that last 10 years. When you're on a fixed income, you have to consider the cost benefit analysis of this. I'll let you know if I'm right or not in 20 years (when I'm 95)!

If I didn't have the hemi in my dirt car already built, you'd be building my next engine!

GOSFAST · 11-23-2016, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry Floored

I'd like to see some real testing between modern low tension 3 ring pistons vs original type 4 ring designs as they relate to drag and cylinder wall wear. Common sense tells me that the newer designs would be be far more forgiving on the cylinder walls but the real data would tell the tale.

Hi Henry, when we do these builds with the Ross pistons and the 1.5, 1.5, 3.0 mm "metric" ring pack we see the HP numbers take off.

Regardless of the final stroke, 4.000" or 4.250", the HP sort of stays as a "constant". In other words the HP numbers run close to the same while the Torque goes way up on the strokers.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. What we've learned some years ago is much of the HP increase is directly related to the ring pack more than any other single component inside. The block plate honing has also proven to be a huge "plus" on these castings, the rings are almost fully seated on the assembly stand? Just 10/15 minutes or so on the dyno and the rings set for life!

GOSFAST · 11-23-2016, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubman

Gary,

You're right of course, but on a practical basis how many of us are going to put near that number of miles on one of these cars? I drive my car a lot in the summer up here in Minnesota, and I put about 20,000 miles on it over that last 10 years. When you're on a fixed income, you have to consider the cost benefit analysis of this. I'll let you know if I'm right or not in 20 years (when I'm 95)!

If I didn't have the hemi in my dirt car already built, you'd be building my next engine!

Hopefully I'll be here too waiting for you!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Go to sign off for tonight, wish you all a "Happy Thanksgiving". Don't "stuff" yourselves tomorrow!

scooder · 11-24-2016, 08:42 AM

Is a 150 hp flathead really that stressed that it needs forged pistons, stainless valves, lined guides and all that malarkey?
Now I'm not saying that that stuff ain't better, just really think it's overkill for 150 hp.
I know this is getting around twice the genuine hp numbers, but still? We're all fully aware how much power cast pistons in ohv stuff can handle, and the rpm they get whizzed up to. You can beat in it like a ginger step child and they just go on and on.
And as for cost comparison with ohv stuff, the machine work is the same except the valve job, the parts however are grossly different. Comparing the price of a trick hydraulic roller retrofit cam kit for a small block, to a regular flat tappet cam setup for a flathead just shows you a Big difference. Compare it to the price of a roller or radius tappet flathead cam!! Or use the price of a regular flat tappet small block cam. Pretty much everything is crazzy cheap for the regular ohv stuff, forged pistons again are much cheaper and bearings!! Sen the price of floating bearings versus a set of small block ones?
Martin.

Ziggster · 03-11-2019, 06:38 PM

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My machinist warned back in the fall when I mentioned I had a flathead for him. The engine cost me nothing (CAN$100) and thankfully the block is ok. I recently did up a list of parts needed and I'm aleady at US$1900, plus another CAN$300 for crank cleaning, regrind, and shipping and the list isn't yet complete. I'm using stk heads, intake, carb, cam (regrind by Pete). I'm guessing machine shop is going to be in the neighbourhood of CAN$2000 for a short block assembly. Cost will likely be around CAN$5K when I'm done, but I'll be doing the work to finish the short block. Crazy for 100 Hp but it is all about the nostalgia that only a flathead can bring.

11-23-2016, 09:59 PM	#61
Henry Floored Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 583	Re: Motor build cost. I'd like to see some real testing between modern low tension 3 ring pistons vs original type 4 ring designs as they relate to drag and cylinder wall wear. Common sense tells me that the newer designs would be be far more forgiving on the cylinder walls but the real data would tell the tale.

11-23-2016, 10:16 PM	#62
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,319	Re: Motor build cost. Gary, You're right of course, but on a practical basis how many of us are going to put near that number of miles on one of these cars? I drive my car a lot in the summer up here in Minnesota, and I put about 20,000 miles on it over that last 10 years. When you're on a fixed income, you have to consider the cost benefit analysis of this. I'll let you know if I'm right or not in 20 years (when I'm 95)! If I didn't have the hemi in my dirt car already built, you'd be building my next engine!

11-24-2016, 08:42 AM	#65
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: Motor build cost. Is a 150 hp flathead really that stressed that it needs forged pistons, stainless valves, lined guides and all that malarkey? Now I'm not saying that that stuff ain't better, just really think it's overkill for 150 hp. I know this is getting around twice the genuine hp numbers, but still? We're all fully aware how much power cast pistons in ohv stuff can handle, and the rpm they get whizzed up to. You can beat in it like a ginger step child and they just go on and on. And as for cost comparison with ohv stuff, the machine work is the same except the valve job, the parts however are grossly different. Comparing the price of a trick hydraulic roller retrofit cam kit for a small block, to a regular flat tappet cam setup for a flathead just shows you a Big difference. Compare it to the price of a roller or radius tappet flathead cam!! Or use the price of a regular flat tappet small block cam. Pretty much everything is crazzy cheap for the regular ohv stuff, forged pistons again are much cheaper and bearings!! Sen the price of floating bearings versus a set of small block ones? Martin.

03-11-2019, 06:38 PM	#66
Ziggster Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 855	Re: Motor build cost. Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) My machinist warned back in the fall when I mentioned I had a flathead for him. The engine cost me nothing (CAN$100) and thankfully the block is ok. I recently did up a list of parts needed and I'm aleady at US$1900, plus another CAN$300 for crank cleaning, regrind, and shipping and the list isn't yet complete. I'm using stk heads, intake, carb, cam (regrind by Pete). I'm guessing machine shop is going to be in the neighbourhood of CAN$2000 for a short block assembly. Cost will likely be around CAN$5K when I'm done, but I'll be doing the work to finish the short block. Crazy for 100 Hp but it is all about the nostalgia that only a flathead can bring.